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Post by revolvercranker on Nov 13, 2023 11:18:03 GMT -5
Bob there's nothing there to read. So you add, for an example, a solid SWC, jacketed, whatever. So what about the solid SWC? What alloy? How about if it's a hollow point? With jacketed there's as many to choose from as with cast. Roundnose soft point, hollow point, truncated nose? You're not giving definite answers. Some of us many ask "is the jacketed bullet I'm using okay, bootdesigner didn't specifically mention or describe it". I see that there are many on this forum having huge success by choosing the bullet type themselves. I would still like you to describe the bullet's properties. Please give us the help some of us need.
Another thing I forgot to say and I'm adding is do all those undefined parameters you stated change if your shooting shoulder shots or if you're shooting lung/heart shots?
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Post by boolitdesigner on Nov 13, 2023 12:17:50 GMT -5
Bullet performance to be done later today when this thing is on the charger, it’s a bit tedious to do.
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Post by zeus on Nov 13, 2023 12:49:47 GMT -5
I don't think the comparisons hold true for rifles due to differences in bullet design even within the same line and how rifle bullets are designed to function. Jacket thickness in a 7mm 120 grain ballistic tip may open up at lower velocities (AKA longer range, as velocity drops with distance) than a 120 grain 6.5 mm ballistic tip. For those bullets, there is no substitute for the real world data you're asking for. If we were to limit the revolver discussion to the XTP line of bullets and cast bullets of standard designs, I think you'll get reasonable validity cross referencing similar calibers, with cast in particular. I've shot whitetail to 100-150 yards with a 44 cal 210 and 240 XTP, and with great results. Bullets expanded, damage was significant, recovery was easy. H110 loads in the mag and Special. Chris at Bayside Custom Guns has posted pics of cow elk taken at 200+ with his Frankenruger 357 GP100s, and he's a strong proponent of jacketed bullets. IIRC they were pushing 300 yards. The internet would collectively scoff. Another way to look at range is by a measure of velocity. Distance isn't so important if you can make hits. The bullet doesn't know if it's flown 50 yards or 150 yards, given a load that's proven stable and discounting loads that prove themselves unbalanced when stretched to longer ranges, as some do. Since most revolver kill data is shorter ranges than you're asking, maybe look into the results seen by people who load their 41 down to modest levels for hunting. This is a great surrogate for how a hotter load would perform at longer ranges since you can measure or calculate velocity at 50, 100, 150+ yards in your chosen hunting load. Besides vermin I only hunted with a Franken ruger about twice as I thought they were silly…..I was just experimenting with what things help accuracy…and for some reason people wanted them. I did shoot a truck full of ground hogs and pdogs with them at stupid distances. Never took an elk that far with a 357. Deer to 150. Elk with a 357 to about 75. A customer took a lope that far and posted all over… Used a 44 to 150 on elk with good results….and deer to just over 200 with monos…. The wife and I just dropped two more elk at 50 and 70 with 44 and monos with complete devastation… Took a young mule deer at 90 the day before with the same Korth and 44 monos with a short blood trail the blind could follow. 1750-1900 depending on the gun is plenty fast with the monos. They shoot stupid flat. Taken quite a bit of game with cup and core….I haven’t seen one come close to what the cutting edge bullets do. I wish I started using them sooner. All of my 4 year mono experiment will be published in the late winter/spring. I have a few more animals to take to round out the results….it’s skewed with too many elk right now and I want to make sure the data is consistent when used on deer ish sized game. Which Monos were you using? |
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Post by revolvercranker on Nov 13, 2023 14:55:00 GMT -5
I tried Hornady 45 caliber XTP bullets for my 45 Colts both in handguns and lever action rifles. I wasn't impressed with it. Always got jacket separation. Now this was back in the 90's so maybe they have improved since then.
Same time period I wanted to use my 44 mag revolver for deer hunting one year. There were no bullets to be found in the weight that I wanted. I ended up buying 180 grain which wasn't recommended by Hornady. I loaded them and I got a shot at a large doe. Shot her broadside throught the chest just right in front of the front legs. On impact is was like the Hulk backed up to her and reach over and behind him, grabbed her buy the neck and flipped her over him on the ground. Never seen anything like that. She was dead before she hit the ground. I called Hornady and the tech just didn't know what to say and asked me a lot of question. Of course he wanted to know where the bullet struck her and I told him and then he asked did it go all the way through her as that point. I said yes it did. He said WOW! We don't recommend that weight in the 44 mag for deer. He said I was the first person that reported back on that bullet. I thought that kind of strange in 90's. Surely someone shot a deer with it before me, but nobody reported on it. Another season I shot a button buck with my Winchester 94 Trapper from 35 yeards. The bullet was a 255 grain SWC out of the RCBS mould. Shot was right behind the shoulder. Velocity was 1600 some feet per second. Alloy was pretty hard. I'm sure it didn't expand. Never found the buck even with help of my two German Shepherd. Found him a whole day later in a revine over 300 yards away and bloated! The meat was ruined. My fault using too hard an alloy.
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Post by bigbore5 on Nov 13, 2023 19:21:36 GMT -5
What happens depends on how much energy the bullet has upon striking the animal, caliber and most importantly just what bullet it is and its properties. Deer are relatively easy to kill if hit in the right place with a proper bullet with 400 ft-lbs of striking energy. Let's hear from you what the minimum energy, what you consider "the caliber" to use, what type of bullet to use, and please describe it's properties. Now I did see where you mentioned 400 ft-lbs energy. We know one can kill a deer with a 22 RF, but we're talking "a high success rate". Yeah a 400 ft pound energy bullet striking a deer can produce a lethal would, but what would be it's success ratio? 37 whitetails with the RCBS 38-150-KT bullet, 1200fps muzzle velocity. Farthest I ever tracked one was 97yds.Several bang flops. 7 with a 44 mag, 48yds is the shortest I tracked one with 250swc at 1400. 2 with same bullet at 1150, both down inside 10yds. All shots double lungs. All exited. All the focus on velocity and energy is okay with rifles, but seems to be a waste of time with handguns and deer. |
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Post by bigbrowndog on Nov 13, 2023 19:50:23 GMT -5
No offense guys but how about starting your own post and let’s keep this one on topic, I don’t know where the wheels fell off but my question was about 41’s
Thanks, Trapr
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Post by bigbore5 on Nov 13, 2023 20:13:38 GMT -5
The only way to actually know what a bullet will do in game is to shoot animals with it.
Regardless of caliber, all my potential hunting bullets get tested on live meat. If I intend for the velocity at point of impact to allow expansion, I start with coyote calling and stalking groundhog to the max intended range. If I suspect it started to expand and held together, I will shoot a few trapped hogs from closer range to see if it holds up. Then back up until it's not working as well.
This is if you have an overpopulation of them and can at least get some use out of them.
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Post by babills on Nov 13, 2023 21:45:22 GMT -5
I’m fairly new to the world of the 41 mag, so my experience is minimal. This 180lb whitetail was taken with a frontal shot at 15 yards with a 180 Barnes xpb over 23.0 of H110 (Freedom Arms M83).  The bullet was retrieve from the rear liner of the rear stomach with one petal broke off - penetration was impressive considering bullet weight. This 150ish lb fallow was taken at 80 yards slightly quartering away. Same bullet/load/ gun mentioned above - massive internal damage with complete penetration.  I also killed a big doe at 80 yards with same gun shooting a 210 deep curl over 22gr of H110. Shot was quartering away with complete penetration. Damage showed expansion but not near as much damage as the X bullet. (No pic of her handy). That’s the extent of my jacketed experience. This ram was taken at 50 yards broad side shot with PC 230gr keith bullet over 8.5gr of unique out of 6” OM Blackhawk. Good damage with pass through and I watched the bullet bouncing 100yds behind it.  This black bear was taken up close and personal with same bullet/load/gun above. Very good terminal damage with pass through.  I know this isn’t the ranges you’re inquiring, but as of now, it’s the only 41 mag experience I have - but, it is data. Love the YouTube videos. Keep them up! |
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