Alloying Lead?

[bushog]

How do folks physically mix alloys and is there a way to know they're mixed enough to have a homogeneous material?

Maybe I'm making things too complicated but it's got to matter.

Thanks in advance!

[taffin]

ONE POUND INGOTS POURED OF TYPE, LEAD, WHEELWEIGHTS AND ARE THEN READY TO MIX ACCORDINGLY

[diddle]

I start by sorting my alloying material … pure lead, pure tin, linotype, mono-type and print spacers. About 10 years ago I was lucky to score about 1500 pounds of assorted printing press type. I buy pure lead from scrap yards when I can find the pure stuff used in x-ray rooms, etc. I buy pure tin from commercial suppliers if I need it (usually only for 98/2 Minnie balls). These are melted in large homogeneous batches and poured off in stainless steel condiment tins (~1#). I’ll have each material batch (except what’s known to be pure lead and pure tin) XrF tested to determine composition of Pb, Sn and Sb. Once known, I’ll do the calc’s the melt a pistol/revolver alloy as close to 92/4/4 as I can. These are made in batches of about 40#. I’ll heat to about 700*, flux with sawdust, stir well, then pour off in those same condiment tins that weigh about 1# each and fit well in my RCBS ProMelt. When I fill my casting pot, I’ll flux with beeswax, stir and cast. These days, I cast for 38/357, 44 M/Spl, 45 ACP, 45C and 454. I’m sure there is a better way to do this, but so far, my alloy has shot as good as any commercial bullet I’ve used and when I have had my finished alloys XrF checked, they are pretty close to the plan. Too much info, sorry.

[AxeHandle]

Me too.. Don't cast often but when I do I use one of the little Lyman ingot molds for this. I do separate castings of linotype and pure lead. When I add to the pot I maintain the predetermined ratio. Mine is generally 50:50. Never thought much about the mixing of the two but there is a nice large flat bladed screwdriver beside the lead pot. It has lead all over the shaft as if somebody uses it to mix the solution in the pot. Use a LBT hardness tester to verify that I've got it where I want it to be.

[aciera]

Any preference on hardness testers?

[x101airborne]

When I get batches of whatever kind of lead, be it wheel weights, roof jacks, etc. I melt them down in a big pot and make muffin tin ingots. After cooling I use a steel stamp to mark the ingots. P for pure, WW for wheel weights, you get the idea. I shoot for about a 50% pure 50% wheel weight mix. I water quench my solids and on my Lee hardness tester they tend to come to about 15 Brinell. Air cooled hollow points come to about 9-10 Brinell. This has worked so far for me for everything from 454 Casull and 500 S&W down to 32 long. I typically dont add much tin unless I am having issues with fill out. I buy rolls of solder from garage sales usually for about a dollar a roll. 1/8th inch thick solder I will add roughly two inches per pound of added ingots for hollow points to allow more lead to flow into those small spaces. Not very scientific, but it works for my needs.

[bushog]

Ive got the mixing ratios down and have lots of soft lead, lino, isotope cores, solder and tin pellets.

Im wondering about the actual mixing of the components. Sounds like folks done worry about that and I believe thats a mistake.

Ive done xrf hyperspectral mapping on materials at work that i was just sure were homogenous and they weren’t. Problem is the spot size of the laser in most commercial xrf instruments is about 25 microns. Not big enough to tell you much except in that small area. The assumption is the materials being measured are homogenous.

Maybe it really doesn’t matter….

BTW there is a great Exel spreadsheet/alloy hardness calculator over on the Castboolits Forum you can download. It includes solder, mono, lino and many other materials that can be used in casting. Somply plug in percentages of each and the spreadsheet calculates the hardness for you. Its an invaluable tool.

Still wondering how much stirring is enough…

[Odin]

Dec 25, 2021 20:26:48 GMT -5 bushog said:

How do folks physically mix alloys and is there a way to know they're mixed enough to have a homogeneous material?

Maybe I'm making things too complicated but it's got to matter.

Thanks in advance!

The book you need is Glen Fryxell's From Ingot to Target. It's a free download from the LA Silhouette club's website, but generally, lead alloys quite easily. Use a good fluxing agent (sawdust works wonderfully) and you're good to go.

[bushog]

Has NOTHING about mixing/stirring

[AxeHandle]

Stiring thought... Logical thought though. After thinking a bit just dropping a few ingots in a half full pot and depending on natural forces to mix them doesn't sound like a good idea. Screwdriver stir stick to the rescue..

FWIW water dropping 50 and 475 bullets to speed the casting rate turned out to be a bad thing here in North Alabama. Bullets wouldn't shoot for diddly and in short time they broke the linkage on a Star sizer. When tested with the LBT hardness tester best I remember they went 26+. Air cooled they ran less than 15. These days when I step away from my Magma Master Caster to the bottom pour pot I make sure I have at least three sets of molds ready to go. That gives everyone time to air cool.

[kgb]

Very good question, it appears most people believe the combined alloys blend together "well enough" with a little bit of stirring and that's the end of it. How to tell for certain is the unknown, except maybe hardness testing an entire batch, nose, base and sides?

[aciera]

Dec 26, 2021 14:09:23 GMT -5 kgb said:

Very good question, it appears most people believe the combined alloys blend together "well enough" with a little bit of stirring and that's the end of it. How to tell for certain is the unknown, except maybe hardness testing an entire batch, nose, base and sides?

Large batches......and get to know someone at a good junk yard

[leadhound]

Don’t forget about the pinch of magic and handful of hoodoo!

[boatswainsmate]

I melt the different alloys into useable ingots until I'm ready to make my determined casting alloy. I use the excell spreadsheet found on the castbooilits website to figure what amounts of each alloy I need. I weigh everything the best I can to make 65 pound batches at a time. I double flux each batch with canning wax and sawdust. Please make sure you let the sawdust burn down before stirring it into the melt just in case there's moisture in it. Here's a video I made melting down monotype.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=voaaWDLgfSE&t=57s

[sixshot]

I cast my lead, WW's, & linotype into 1 or 2 lb ingots & 95% of the time I only air cool my bullets. My alloys are almost always a blend of 70% WW's & 30% lead with about 1/4 lb of linotype added to bring up the tin a bit & also the antimony.
If I'm water quenching I try to size right after the bullets have cooled, especially now that I powder coat, because if you don't it's very easy to bend the handle on your sizer, especially on a Star sizer like one of mine. You need to use Hornady One Shot Case Lube & spray your bullets if you are powder coating, perhaps even if you are using conventional lube if you wait a day a two before sizing.
If I'm casting a big pot of alloy I'll increase the linotype to about 1/2 lb, hoping for around 4% antimony in the mix. I found a photo a few days ago of my Cape Buffalo that I didn't show before. This was my first shot with a 325 gr LBT 45 slug from my Ruger bisley. The shot was through the right front shoulder with an exit. The Buffalo dropped on it's right front leg & it's nose but managed to get back up, stood for a few seconds & gave me a shot through the ribs from the left side. It dropped at the shot & rolled onto it's left side. You can see the exit from the first shot out the left shoulder. This bullet was water quenched & I think about an 18 BHN.
Obviously I didn't recover it but I have others I can test to make sure.

Dick