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Post by ncrobb on Oct 23, 2021 19:57:35 GMT -5
Many years ago when I was a lad, I tossed a holstered three screw SBH on my bed and it went bang. I was heading out to check on the cows and pulled it out of my dresser before I changed from my “good” boots to my work boots. My brother later admitted his friend had cocked it but they didn’t know how to decock it so they put it back. I didn’t even think to look and see if the hammer was back. In my mind it was there waiting hammer down on an empty hole. After I chewed him hard I moved a picture hanging in my bedroom to cover the half inch hole in the wall. Of course my mother immediately asked why I moved the picture.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Oct 24, 2021 21:09:05 GMT -5
I was questioned at a shooting match one time because the range officer had stopped me during a course of fire for what he thought was an AD. My answers to the enquiry were that “no i had pulled the trigger, there was no accident about it”. The gun however did go off before I had it mounted in my shoulder, due to the fact that I had actually hit my intended target, I was reinstated in the event.
I have also had a round cook off, in the chamber of an M60 machine gun, sadly it was while I was looking in the chamber and trying to discover the cause of the guns malfunction. Happily, good quality eyewear saved my eyes and I was simply left with small pieces of brass and I burned powder in my cheeks.
I’ve never had an unloaded gun go off, but I have forgotten that I had just loaded one and practiced a “dryfire” only to discover it wasn’t a “dryfire”...........luckily adherence to not pointing at something you do not intend to destroy has prevented any great loss.
Trapr
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Post by Aeroscout on Oct 24, 2021 21:42:00 GMT -5
ND for sure. Sorry to hear the news. Must maintain vigilance and discipline with complex machines. Even if they're props in a movie.
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Post by taffin on Oct 24, 2021 23:44:00 GMT -5
Prompted by the recent unfortunate event by Alec Baldwin I wonder what anyones' thoughts are on the the subject. Numerous organizations classify the recent event and others as an accidental discharge, or AD. I don't share that opinion. When something like that happens it is unfortunate, terrible, life changing and many other things but I do not believe it is accidental. If a tree falls on a passing car and kills the driver (A friends wife passed that way) that to me is an accident. If a human finger touches off a round at a/the not desired time I don't consider that an accident. If there is a rule or law warning against an action and that action takes place with detrimental results to me that's not an accident. The result is unintentional, unintended, unfortunate or otherwise but not an accident. I'll call them UD, or unintentional discharge. I have four of those to my credit with thankfully no blood shed. The first was when I was a teenager and knew everything about guns and was testing the half cock safety on a S&W 38, loaded. After the hole in the curtain, pane of glass, and outside fence panel were observed I had to make the worst telephone call I can remember. The other three are for another day. So what say you? THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE--NEGLIGENT? YES. DELIBERATE? YES. ACCIDENT? NO.
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Post by sixshot on Oct 25, 2021 0:33:12 GMT -5
In 1961 I was Pheasant hunting with my brother & I stepped out of the truck & racked a round into dads old model 97 Winchester hammer gun & when the slide went forward I fired a round into the road in front of me! I never touched the trigger, just running that slide forward was enough to fire the gun. That was it for me that day & when we got home dad scolded me pretty hard & then proceeded to do the same thing, although it took him 2-3 tries. Now my oldest (gunsmith) son has that same model 97, but he completely rebuilt it. Model 97's were known to do that exact thing as they got worn.
Dick
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Post by bula on Oct 25, 2021 8:01:39 GMT -5
I grew up bird hunting and time spent shooting clays for practice. I've seen more than a few shotguns, pumps and autos, go BANG when the bolt hits full forward. Muzzle control is what saves you, here. I've not been in the service but it is my understanding that many ranges and places where hot weapons are brought back onto base, have a sand barrel for save clearing use. Wise.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Oct 25, 2021 9:29:14 GMT -5
I think the term ACCIDENTAL discharge plays right in to today’s tendency for people to not want to take responsibility for their actions and blame someone or something else. I agree with JT, there may be a true accidental discharge out there somewhere but then maybe not.
Trapr
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Post by bigmuddy on Oct 25, 2021 10:48:59 GMT -5
My Remington 700 fired when I moved the safety lever to the “fire” position. Not sure I would call that negligence, either time. (Twice in the same day). I was more prepared for it the second time.
Muzzle control prevented injury.
Dan
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Post by buttebob on Oct 25, 2021 12:01:59 GMT -5
I know of 5 AD's. I had an old 22 rifle that if you pulled the trigger with the safety on and then clicked the safety off it would fire. Luckily it was pointed at the ground when I discovered that and not at my 3 hunting companions. Another was a little Spanish double that when you fired the right barrel the left would also fire. The gun shop where I worked got some used paratrooper AK-47's from another dealer. I was given the job of checking their function. Loaded 3 rounds in the mag, loaded a round from the mag, pulled the trigger once and the mag was empty. We sent those back. Then there was the Browning A-5. Put one in the chamber and 2 up the tube. Pull the trigger. Pow, Pow, Pow. Wait. Do it again. That was way too much fun. Then there was one before my time at the shop. The High Standard Olympic 22 Short. Load the mag, pull the trigger and hold it back. Pew. The slide moves back ejects the case, moves forward picks up a round. Pew. Keep the sights lined up. Pew. Slow motion. The ND's. The guy who shot his TV. The guy who shot half his finger off. The employee who tried out the action job on his Colt Sheriff's model by firing a 255 gr. bullet through his camera bag without hitting any cameras or lens or employees. The employee who was trying to talk a customers wife into getting a gun for the house by showing his S&W 36, dumping the cartridges out while they were on his couch in his living room and then putting a bullet into the wall between the two of them. Always use the ejector. The guy with the old, historic Charleston, SC name who wouldn't listen when he was told not to carry his cocked HS derringer down the front of his pants.
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Post by parallaxbill on Oct 25, 2021 13:41:42 GMT -5
I had an ND sitting in my upstairs family room just outside my gun room. I had just finished replacing my Ruger Mk3 Competition 22s mag safety when I fired a round out my screened window, over a neighbor's house and into a empty pasture . Damn was I embarrassed but happy there was no more damage than the .22" hole in my screen. I absolutely hate magazine safety's. They can create confusion if the majority of what you are used to does not have them.
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Post by needsmostuff on Oct 25, 2021 15:44:14 GMT -5
If taken to a grand jury,,,,, Negligent discharge resulting in negligent homicide. True Bill of indictment .
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jack
.30 Stingray
Posts: 193
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Post by jack on Oct 25, 2021 18:38:20 GMT -5
Many years ago, a good friend taught hunter safety to kids 8-11 years old. They were drilled constantly that every gun is to ALWAYS be treated as loaded. You took a gun, unloaded it in front of the kids and handed it around for inspection. EACH AND EVERY ONE, EACH AND EVERY TIME was required to open the action and check the chambers. It costs nothing and takes seconds. My business partner and I gave a demonstration of handguns for an hour during the second day of the two day course. We brought a variety of styles and calibers and gave a little lecture on function and operation of each. In the middle of it, I always handed a gun to Dave after I had done my bit, and he would intentionally FAIL to double check the gun to see if it was loaded. A little trick to see if they were paying attention. They CAUGHT him every time! You would hear a gasp, or an OOHHHHH! An inevitable flurry of hands would go up, or fingers would point.
Point is: These were young kids and they GOT IT in a day. This is a well budgeted professional work place governed by state local and federal work place safety laws. Populated by SUPPOSED adults. And I am supposed to believe they could not afford a simple one day course on how-to safely handle and verify the condition of their firearms. PARTICULALY if they were going to have weapons able to handle live ammo in addition to 5-1 blanks? HOW could they even allow live ammo on a set with working firearms? There is NO VIABLE EXCUSE for taking someone else's word that a weapon is "cold" or "Clear". None. And no legitimate excuse for not taking the tiny amount of time and brain power required to simply LOOK and see if the chambers are loaded.
I believe that the person discharging this firearm is very likely liable for charges of negligence. I am pretty damn sure if it had been ME AND NOT A POWERFUL ACTOR, I would have been awaiting their decisions on charges in a cell. Not too long back a 14 year old, shot a 16 year old near to where we live. An accident with a gun he thought was not loaded and that he did not know how to handle. They went after the kid AND the parents without mercy. Likewise Mr Baldwin as executive producer is the person of responsibility here - The Boss. So he could and should quite possibly be liable criminally for his failure to provide a safe secure workplace with proper responsible practices with live firearms. A double whammy if you will. What I DO NOT SEE HERE is an accident. This was bad practices, bad behavior, and bad management as well as just plain poor and dangerous gun handling. No stupid kids playing with dads wonder nine! A grown man, 63 years old, with the responsibilities of leadership and management on HIS JOB SITE.
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Post by Gunny268 on Oct 25, 2021 19:13:02 GMT -5
Just saw the "armorer's" interview on the nationally televised infomercial aka, evening news. Only six weeks in that job field and considered a professional??? "SCARED TO DEATH JUST WHILE LOADING BLANKS" I WAS amused, now I'm wholly disgusted!
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jack
.30 Stingray
Posts: 193
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Post by jack on Oct 26, 2021 7:54:51 GMT -5
Just saw the "armorer's" interview on the nationally televised infomercial aka, evening news. Only six weeks in that job field and considered a professional??? "SCARED TO DEATH JUST WHILE LOADING BLANKS" I WAS amused, now I'm wholly disgusted! I think the propaganda monsters have been spinning this greatly - likely because this "armorer" is both a genuine gun person, and a very convenient scape goat and it looks like they may need one. The "scared" and first time on the job, etc are completely out of context with this topic. The movie with the shooting, Rust, is not her first film. It is not the job she almost did not take from newbie nerves. She had already completed another film with Clint Howard. And that was the one she was discussing in an interview about being nervous. If I understand what they are saying, it was the assistant director that was handing out guns and calling "cold gun" anyway, not the wrangler as it should have been. Anyway - it seems there will been plenty of blame to go around!
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Post by dougader on Oct 26, 2021 12:48:22 GMT -5
Also agree with the ND definition. I killed Luke Skywalker with an ND to my brother's bedroom TV... right between the eyes, with an unloaded gun, of course.
The deal with AB has a twist to it, but I was always taught to check a gun that someone handed to me, whether we knew it to be unloaded or not. IMO, clear case of negligent homicide. He didn't mean to kill the woman, but he did negligently fire a gun at her. The distinction between thinking a gun in unloaded vs. loaded with blanks is thin, very thin.
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