NOT ANYMORE on worst customer Service List -- Charter Arms !

[needsmostuff]

I believe in giving credit where credit is due for both outstanding and dismal customer service.
For me Charter Arms has now displaced Taurus as the worst of the worst.
Enough blather , details man , details .
Started with a recent thread by 45MAN looking for info on the 32 mag professional.
singleactions.proboards.com/thread/31448/info-charter-arms-shot-professional?page=2
Well known as a low shooter I decided to investigate as I also had front sight spinning problems .
Since day one my front sight would never stay put . Bottom of front sight is small and flat . Top of barrel has a small , slightly raised flat pad . Sight is secured by ONE , very small Allen head screw under the light pipe .
What could go wrong ? It spins enough I briefly thought COOL , it's like windage adjustable that way . But nope , just wont stay put . Sorry , but most air soft products have better design and execution .
Only advice from customer service at that point was tighten it up. Hmmmmm .
After pervious thread I decided to remove the sight and use the screw head to get a measurement for what height would work with the rear .
Now picture a Allen head cap screw so small I had to find drivers smaller than the average set . I believe the one I used was for adjusting laser grip sights. !!!! But at least I had one that fit .
Now when the screw was half way out it stopped . Twist a little harder , stopped ,try to turn back in , stopped , try to turn back in a little harder , screw head strips out to a round hole. Hmmmm.

Here's where customer service come into play.
I emailed on a customer comment form. One week later , no answer .
I then emailed the stated "Head of customer service " . One week later , no answer .
I then emailed direct to Nick Ecker . One week later , no answer ,,,, Hmmmmm.
Seems they don't care to discuss the Professional front sight

I then studied the return form and FAQs to find shipping on my dime and another 50.00 service charge to send something in for warranty work . So over $100 to get it back with a crappy front sight that does not point where the bullets go.
I GUESS !!! Because they won't answer the emails .

Needless to say the old sight base will be surgically removed and something will be dovetailed in the front .
Best part is I swore off Charter Arms once before ,,,,,,, This gun was their second chance .

[bula]

Am sorry to hear this. The folks that treated me so well, probably all retired now. 

[taffin]

YOU HAVE OBVIOUSLY NOT DEALT WITH EXCEL ARMS. THEY ARE A LIST ALL BY THEMSELVES.

[tdbarton]

Counterpoint: I had an excellent customer service experience with Charter Arms while rebuilding a 1973 Undercover. Talked to a nice lady on the phone who send out what I needed in a timely manner and even included extras after I joked about probably losing the cylinder latch plunger.

[needsmostuff]

I think perhaps the difference is ,you get a decent response IF there is a possible solution .
I think they have had their head dunked enough times with this issue with these guns they simply prefer to not respond anymore . They Have NO answer.
I would prefer an answer saying it is what it is, too bad so sad. But NO answer is just plain unprofessional .
I understand working out bugs on a new gun but failure to address the poorly engineered sighting system after several years rates no stars,,,, no smiley faces .
Yet they continue to promote and sell the gun unchanged.

I may do as tdbarton did and give them a call .
See if they try and duck it face to face on the phone.

[jeffh]

Sept 30, 2021 17:17:26 GMT -5 needsmostuff said:

I think perhaps the difference is ,you get a decent response IF there is a possible solution .
I think they have had their head dunked enough times with this issue with these guns they simply prefer to not respond anymore . They Have NO answer.
I would prefer an answer saying it is what it is, too bad so sad. But NO answer is just plain unprofessional .
I understand working out bugs on a new gun but failure to address the poorly engineered sighting system after several years rates no stars,,,, no smiley faces .
Yet they continue to promote and sell the gun unchanged.

I may do as tdbarton did and give them a call .
See if they try and duck it face to face on the phone.

This is unfortunate.  This is a company I care a great deal about, even if they are not what they used to be.

By that, I mean that I think their market today is people who just want a gun.  Look at how few aftermarket grip options there are.  I believe most people who buy Charters are not like us.  Charter had a history of several guns which hit the mark for us and didn't need any "work" or enhancement.  With fixed sights, there were few problems.  Their adjustable rear sights aren't exactly wonderful.  It seems when they try to stretch and provide more than their typical market demands (just a gun), they start to get into trouble.  It was no different with the barrel shroud on the Target Bulldog of yore.  It was greatly criticized, they changed it.  Loctite did the trick actually, but people today don't seem to look down their noses at barrel shrouds, as others are doing it even as Charter abandoned it.

The "High Polish" 357 Mag Bulldog I bought fairly recently certainly has/had issues.  The front sight was the biggest issue, in that it was filed down at the factory and shot very high at fifteen yards, while trying to shoot cast 158 and 180 grain bullets.  They handled that issue with great care and attention and replaced the whole barrel because the front sight is integral.  It took five weeks, I think because it was out of production and they had to scrounge for a barrel.  They also fussed with the rear sight.  I suspect the front sights were filed down at the factory in response to others' complaints that the gun shot too low with the new boutique/expensive "personal defense rounds" of non-traditional (lighter) bullet weights and (lower) velocities.  THIS is a hypothesis arrived at solely on "reason-based conjecture," meaning it's the only thing I could possibly think of that made any sense.

I wish they would stay viable and solvent by catering to their primary market, but still venture forth with other things we who truly appreciate revolvers want, but leave the fancy features out of it.  I'd be perfectly happy with fixed-sight Charters which shoot to POA using traditional loads.  Maybe a pipe dream.  Speaking of "pipes," I am definitely interested in their 38 Special "Professional," but the thing that put me off was the "light-pipe" front sight.  Not being able to figure out how it was attached was what stopped me cold.  Now that I know it's a screw, I'd buy one and remove that glowing blob (which is how they appear to me) and replace the front sight with a patridge-type, solid metal sight, maybe even a night-sight.  Dovetailing one in or having a slot cut should be do-able.  I can file a dovetail but can't cut a slot.  If I could find someone to mill such a slot, I have a Ruger Flat Top 44 Special which needs that same fix and an old Charter Target Bulldog as well.

Speaking of which, I sent THAT gun back to Ruger five years after I bought it and they were great about addressing the cylinder with chambers out of radial "time," but they completely ignored my request to fix the too-short front sight.  I e-mail again twice after getting it back (totally different/new gun, by the way) with the same problem.  Two subsequent e-mails later, still no reply.  Completely ignored that issue and they HAD the gun and KNEW it was an issue, because I know others who had the same problem.  I was shooting factory-level 44 Special loads too, by the way.  I later learned that the person who handled such things - the person I as e-mailing - had left Ruger.  I found that out when another lady called me and apologized and offered to fix a Ruger 77/357 I'd inquired about help with a year previous - several times.  I had to tell that that pig of a gun had long since gone down the road - and the guy who bought it didn't care that it shot very inconsistently at 50 yards.  He wanted it because they had been discontinued AND it would still hit a deer at 50 yards.  I was put off, but a year later, I got a call saying that they'd found a bunch of unanswered emails and were trying to rectify that.

I think a call to Charter is in order.  I also believe that being especially nice (not that you haven't been) will help a lot.  I say that because, often, by the time you find someone who CAN/WILL help, you're "in a state."  I know I am and I warn people when they answer the phone that I may seem irritated, and to please be patient with me because I've gotten run around and am trying my best to be nice in spite of it.  I've TAKEN a LOT of customer service calls from irate customers.  I knew to let them vent and not take it personally and then try to get to the crux of the issue.  It takes thick skin and a lot of patience - which I don't think a lot of people have these days.  Customer service people are not chosen for their deep knowledge of the product and get stuck between the customer and the company.  I had to go toe to toe with my boss (President/owner of the company) to make things right for a customer.  Not everyone can or will do that.  Also, everything being upside down with the pandemic, whether one believes it to be real or a hoax, understated or overblown, has caused a lot of stress on EVERYONE for over a year, and it's cumulative, even for those who think they're not affected. 

PLEASE don't take that as a criticism or an assumption that YOU handled things poorly, because I don't believe that's true.  I DO believe that there's a chance you could still get help, because they HAVE helped others.  Luck of the draw - you got the wrong person on the wrong day.  I THINK they are good people.  I'm pretty certain they don't have a lot of people there who know how to do much more than assemble the parts they get from (US) suppliers, but it suits the vast majority of their market.  If they built guns like they used to, they'd cost quite a bit more, but I'd be happy to pay more if they ran a little "side-business" catering to people like us who have a greater understanding and appreciation of revolvers than the masses who are "paying their bills."

[6gunsonly]

Sept 30, 2021 13:24:21 GMT -5 tdbarton said:

Counterpoint: I had an excellent customer service experience with Charter Arms while rebuilding a 1973 Undercover. Talked to a nice lady on the phone who send out what I needed in a timely manner and even included extras after I joked about probably losing the cylinder latch plunger.

I had two Charter Arms service encounters a few years ago and had an excellent experience with both.

[Quick Draw McGraw]

I had a recent experience with Smith & Wesson... I'm not interested in buying anything from them again. Not after the experience I had.

[jeffh]

Oct 2, 2021 1:08:51 GMT -5 Quick Draw McGraw said:

I had a recent experience with Smith & Wesson... I'm not interested in buying anything from them again. Not after the experience I had.

Only had one Smith I ever had to return, but then I think I've only ever had two Smiths.  This was 85 or 86, when they discontinued the 624 again and I snagged a brand new one for $275.  It was rife with problems.  I returned it with TEN serious issues, none of which were aesthetic in nature - all functional.  They were nice and very eager to help but only fixed two of the ten problems and made the others worse.  That was a long time ago, so probably not that relevant.

I've sent back several Rugers over the years, but I've had a LOT more of those.  Always decent to deal with except for the above incident.

I've only ever sent an H&R back one time and that was when a "gunsmith" ruined the barrel and H&R INSISTED upon taking it back and fixing it under warranty.

I don't own Rossi or Taurus revolvers specifically because of their parts policy (return a whole rifle to get a new dovetail front sight??) and when I did send them guns, they fixed something that wasn't wrong and ignored what I sent it back for - two times.

The 357 Mag Bulldog mentioned above is the first and only Charter I've ever returned, and I've had a lot of Charters.  This is, all of my previous Charters were older guns with one exception.  I had a 2" 32 Mag made in the early 2000s which was a total turd.  I gave it away with a bag of 500 new Starline 32 Mag cases I sold - literally gave it away.  Told the guy that was the deal or no brass.

[marcruger]

That top of my "worst customer service" list will forever be KIMBER. Those have to be the nastiest people I have ever dealt with. Ever. Not just in the gun industry. Just NASTY.

Anyone can make a lemon now and again, but it is how customer service responds that is the key in my book.

I have had wonderful dealings with Colt (especially the Brent years), Smith & Wesson, and Ruger. I would not hesitant to buy one from these three excellent makers any time. I think of their customer service as:

Colt - helpful
S&W - humorous and goes "above and beyond"
Ruger - They treat you like family - a relative that they like

I think Kimber makes some good guns, but they clearly don't test fire guns or the numerous bad ones wouldn't leave their factory.

Yes, I had a really bad experience with Kimber, as did my dad. More than once each.

Best wishes, Marc

[squawberryman]

Kimber told me there was nothing wrong with a 1911 trigger than felt like 80 grit sandpaper. That gun is now a 22 conversion after Lou fixed the trigger.

[contender]

"YOU HAVE OBVIOUSLY NOT DEALT WITH EXCEL ARMS. THEY ARE A LIST ALL BY THEMSELVES."

Ding, ding, ding!!!

I'm glad it wasn't me that owned the firearm I TRIED to help a friend with from them. "Nuff said."

As noted above,, ANYBODY can make a product that isn't quite "right." It's HOW they handle these imperfections that makes the big difference. And as noted,, it's often the person you deal with at the factories that makes the difference as well.
I've owned & enjoyed many different makes of guns over the years,, and settled long ago on my Rugers as my primary go to guns. I had to chuckle at the post above about Kimber. I bought one many years ago,, that in the shop, new,, it was tight & felt great. Well, first mag in that 1911,, I had the hammer following the slide. NOT a good thing. Back it went. The "tech" made a nasty note in the return box that the customer should pay as the hammer & sear were "messed with." Sorry,, not me,,it was a new gun. I later found out they had a bad batch of those parts,, that were soft or something. Next range trip after it returned,, and with it's fixed sights,, it was hitting 4" left,, and 10" low. Nice grouping,, but WAY off. Another call. Received a new barrel & bushing. Nope,, that didn't fix it. I finally had it milled & fitted with adjustable sights,, and then the 3rd range trip put those nice slugs in the center,, once adjusted.
Then, after about 250 rounds,, the hammer started following the slide again. I took a Brazos Custom hammer & sear,, installed them,, and since then,,, it has run almost flawlessly,, except for the broken extractor at a USPSA match once. I replaced that extractor & no more problem.

The fun part was when I went to SHOT after the initial issues,, and MET the man I'd been dealing with face to face. We had a LONG discussion. Suffice it to say,, he admitted to Kimber having occasional issues with some things. It happens.

[bradshaw]

A brilliant precision blaster and sometimes blasting partner, Don Mattieu, a.k.a. Don the Dynamiter and Master Blaster, Cast & handloaded for his Charter Arms .38 Special. Carried it in thigh pocket of his overalls, bluing well worn. As I verily lived with a Model 29 at waist or slung on hip for the express purpose of precision deployment, I considered Don the Dynamiter's pea shooter something of a rattle. But his little gat always worked.. You can be sure hayseed, dust & various manure coated the dynamiter and his revolver at all times. He would never accord his beautiful and super accurate Luger P-08 such bang-around treatment. Nor would the German jewelry stand for it, Don’s otherwise very reliable Luger with his cast 9mm handloads.

Don was forced to kill more than livestock with his trusty Charter Arms. When the town road foreman made an intemperate dicision to cut a drainage into prime hayfield, burying rich grass in sand & gravel, Don subsequently missed his chance for a talk as the road foreman returned, driving a grader. Soon enough, the foreman was back, this time with a truckload of gravel to advance the damage. Don the Dynamiter hopped the running board. Whether fearful of Don’s blasting skills or the fact that he always packed, the foreman tromped the gas... nearly sucking Don under dual tires.

Many years before, Don had been blown up----up, up up up 12 to 18 feet in the air as he stood on the tread plate steel deck a drilling barge. Having taken the hairy job to re-drill & blast across a river in New Jersey previously botched and abandoned by an outfit unsuited to the task. Perhaps his drill hit unexploded powder in the rock below the river: “We’ll never know,” said Don. The blast, which threw the barge straight up, packed mud into every oriface of Don the Dynamiter’s body from asshole to eye socket. Compressed ankle bones, knees, ball joints of the hip. Packed in New Jersey river mud.

Having survived a blast which should have killed him all ten cat lives... and now about to be sucked under truck tires, Don flings his self clear of death. Drawing through contortion his .38 to kill both tires. Don the Dynamiter lives to fight another day, his little Charter Arms perfect in that moment. And washing from the road foreman’s skull any notion of turning Don's hayfield into a gavel pit.

Later on a state trooper asks me whether I think my friend and blasting partner might be losing it.

I trust my life with him surrounded by dynamite and he trusts me and we just fit a groove.

The state trooper nods, “That’s good enough for me.”
David Bradshaw

[reflex264]

That sounds terrible. I have dealt with the Eckers several times and the customer service dept. Even replaced a whole gun without a hitch.
I have several older Charter guns and they even dove in the parts bin and dug up a couple of old style bulldog cranes.
Call (866)-769-4867 and ask for Donna.
If you are on Facebook go to the Charter Arms Classic group. Nick Ecker checks it very often. He has jumped in immediately when customer service became and issue.

[needsmostuff]

Oct 5, 2021 15:20:31 GMT -5 reflex264 said:

Call (866)-769-4867 and ask for Donna.

OK I took the advice and called Donna and did get a better response and YUP , she is super nice .
She did empower me to butcher away on the loose sight base with out voiding any kind of warranty .
So with fastidious dremeling I was able to remove the shell of the front sight enough to get a firm grip on the outside of the screw head and get it moving.
I mean Dremels and heavy Klein pliers for gunsmith work ? What could go wrong ? Rock on bubba.
Anyway screw is out and Donna is sending a replacement sight and screw.
So I will use the screw head to establish what sight height needs to be . Then I will lower the pad it sits on and reattach the small parts plus some adhisive .
If no happyiness results or the new sight still spins it will be dovetail time .
Heck , Who knows ,,,, It might work.