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Post by bigbore5 on Sept 19, 2021 6:47:31 GMT -5
Has anyone tried this bullet in a Ruger maximum?
I'm hunting starting load data for this bullet for my first maximum.
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 19, 2021 8:56:52 GMT -5
Has anyone tried this bullet in a Ruger maximum? I'm hunting starting load data for this bullet for my first maximum. ***** Numbers by themselves invoke immediate associations which may have nothing to do with the speaker’s intent. “640” brings to mind Smith & Wesson J-frame Model 640 stainless Centennial .357 Mag. “359” sounds to my ear like an S&W Model 59 9mm Luger with an aluminum slide, which, who knows, may have been made, to see how fast a delayed-blowback could self-destruct. May we presume the bullet of your inquiry is a cast semiwadcutter? Semantics and jargon aside, the .357 Maximum is a cartridge case for slow pistols propellants. To avoid fast and medium powders at all hazards avoid unnecessary excitement & disaster. Slow powders charge to base of the bullet, or close to the base of the bullet. From the time the .357 Maximum was in development, I never loaded powder faster than Hercules 2400 (which would include its later re[lacement Alliant 2400). Winchester 296, also canistered as Hodgdon H110, may be the all-time champ magnum pistol powder, but accuracy falls off in the 1.605-inch Maximum case. Velocity seems to incline at the very same rate accuracy declines. IMR 4227 and Hodgdon 4227 is one and the same single-base powder in my loading, and this includes interchanging the two at the highest level of steel shooting. By either label 4227 is the all-time powder champion in the Maximum. I load to base of bullet, sometimes lightly compress. The old double-base Winchester 680 ball powder put on new clothes as Accurate 1680. Shooting the SRM .357 Maximum prototypes with .358 rifle bullets, Winchester 680 quickly proved its accuracy @ 100 yards. Win 296/H110 may be the velocity king, but it is the accuracy pauper in the Maximum. 296/H110 shot accurate @ 100 yards with one or two bullets I don’t remember. Slowest powder I tried in the .357 Maximum was IMR 4198, a long, skinny single-base stick powder, which burns on the fast end of medium rifle powders. IMR 4198 produces extraordinary accuracy in some cartridges. I compressed 22 grains under the then brand new, Speer .357 200 TMJ (Total Metal Jacket) silhouette bullet. Recall Federal 1.605 nickel plated brass, with Federal 205 Match small rifle primer. Velocity from the 8VH averaged a paltry 1258 fps. First time out, loading into my Dan Wesson Model 40 Vent Heavy 8-inch, a foray across the four big bore categories, the combination bumped up my Revolver Aggregate Record. Match director Henry Haber said my last five shots Creedmoor on rams @ 220 yards you could put in a coffee cup. Managed to hold on through my last entry, Standing; where, despite exhaustion and a gentlemen on my right merrily banging steel with his Contender 10-inch .30-30. Each yellow fireball from his muzzle felt like a concussion grenade. (Afterwards, I asked him, You loadin’ BL-C2 in your .30-30? “How’d you know?” he says. Only later did I appreciate the steadiness of my FOLLOW-THROUGH must have been borrowed from a dead man. 4198 in the Maximum demonstrates why smokeless powder is a propellant, not an explosive. Igniting slowly enough you feel the push of acceleration in your hand. BARREL TIME is S-L-O-W. By the time the bullet departs the muzzle, the slightest movement from trigger finger, a tendons or muscles, has shifted the BORE AXIS, altered the bullet’s DEPARTURE ANGLE. Superb accuracy of 4198 heavily compressed under heavy bullet in the .357 Maximum comes at the expense of long barrel time and low velocity. Very light compression of 4227 may yield best accuracy with your cast bullet. You didn’t state the weight of your bullet. David Bradshaw |
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gman50
.30 Stingray
Posts: 191
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Post by gman50 on Sept 19, 2021 9:25:04 GMT -5
I shoot the BRP copy from NOE. These weigh 188gr gas checked & lubed/powder coated. 4227 is definitely a good choice of powder.
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jeffh
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,606
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Post by jeffh on Sept 19, 2021 10:15:04 GMT -5
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Post by randominator on Sept 19, 2021 11:00:11 GMT -5
I have a MP 359-640 plain base no lube groove that I shoot in my FA 353. Accuracy is very good.
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Post by bigbore5 on Sept 19, 2021 11:32:36 GMT -5
Yes. That is the bullet. It weighs 157gr with the large hp pin in my alloy. I have available 4227,H110, and Heavy Pistol for slow pistol powders. |
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jeffh
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,606
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Post by jeffh on Sept 19, 2021 12:51:52 GMT -5
Yes. That is the bullet. It weighs 157gr with the large hp pin in my alloy. I have available 4227,H110, and Heavy Pistol for slow pistol powders. Thank you, Sir.
That is an interesting bullet to be sure and I'd definitely use it in my 357 Mags. I may not have thought to use it in the Max until you mentioned it, but now that idea is intriguing too. Not exactly "light," but not very heavy either. I've only shot 180 and up in my Max's (all carbines) and have no experience with anything lighter.
My less experienced perspective would lead me to try one of the 4227s first, given that it has been very versatile with various weights in other cartridges for me. I've found H110, WC820 to be best loaded to the gills for medium to heavy weights in other cartridges with very little flexibility. You get what you get with a full case and that's that.
I THINK my point is that the 4227s have been more flexible in terms of range of pressure, under which it still performs well for me in other cases.
If you shoot this bullet in the 'Max, it would be great to see/hear results.
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Post by bigbore5 on Sept 19, 2021 19:25:59 GMT -5
I'm going to try the 4227 first, I think. It's hard not to listen to Bradshaw when he says anything about the 357 maximum!
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 19, 2021 22:15:38 GMT -5
Looks like a 157-160 grain Long Flat Nose with double crimp groove at base of ogive. Given the anneal of POWDER COAT, certain to flare on meat. No need for a hollow point with PC. However, and this is a speculation, a hollow point may improve downrange accuracy.
I would DEEP SEAT over 4227; adjust powder charge to base of bullet----or, very light compression. Roll crimp on OGIVE. Also, try seating to one or the other crimp groove, upping charge.
Deep seat may produce accuracy with 2400. Seating deep in the case might work with 296/H110. Velocity is a certainly with these three powders; accuracy is not. Of the three, I’d put a nickel on 2400 to win the accuracy bet.
David Bradshaw
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Post by bigbore5 on Oct 9, 2021 12:45:45 GMT -5
There's plenty of velocity with 4227 for me. What I am hoping for is accuracy. I don't target or silhouette shoot. I intend to hunt with this gun. A groundhog or coyote isn't a large target out past 100yds.
For deer or pigs I ordered one of those 195 grain molds from Accurate. If Lee and Dave recommend it I'd be a fool not to try it.
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Post by bigbore5 on Jan 16, 2022 12:21:40 GMT -5
Gave the 4227 a try. Still working up, but it's just too cold out. Also I loaded the solid version of the 359-640 @ 172gr and a few MP 358421 @ 173gr. The 640 groups less than 3/4" at 25yds. Around 1" for the Keith bullet. That's sitting with my knees pulled up, Keith style. They'd probably be better if I had a bench built.
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 16, 2022 13:01:07 GMT -5
Gave the 4227 a try. Still working up, but it's just too cold out. Also I loaded the solid version of the 359-640 @ 172gr and a few MP 358421 @ 173gr. The 640 groups less than 3/4" at 25yds. Around 1" for the Keith bullet. That's sitting with my knees pulled up, Keith style. They'd probably be better if I had a bench built. ***** bigbore5.... shot aerial water jugs yesterday at 17 below zero Fahrenheit. Old model Blackhawk 4-5/8“ with .38 Special; Ruger 10-1/2” .357 Maximum; Ruger 03 with .45 ACP cylinder. Definitely not the weather for sitting down to shoot groups. Guns don’t mind but the shooter ain’t up for it. If you’re grouping 5x5 into 3/4 and 1-inch @ 25 yards from sitting in hard cold, that’s excellent indeed. Especially from sitting’s short eye relief. Prone imposes the shortest eye relief, Creedmoor the longest. Sitting, or a stretched bench position work well and are less taxing to the eyes than prone. I would not judge and accuracy difference between 3/4” and 1-inch @ 25 yards. David Bradshaw |
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Post by bigbore5 on Jan 16, 2022 13:35:59 GMT -5
I shoot Keith style more than any other. Always have so I'm most comfortable with it. Never did well Creedmoor and rarely use the bench. Plus Fermin's front sight in brass has made a big difference now that my eyes are older. Almost cut my groups in half.
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