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Post by rjm52 on Aug 19, 2021 20:34:17 GMT -5
jordan...yes, FA sells the spanner bit. It drops into a standard replaceable bit screwdriver like a Wheeler or Brownells...
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Post by jordanthedoberman on Aug 19, 2021 23:54:32 GMT -5
David, Your idea seems possible, but since I was loading each round singly, then rotating the loaded cylinder to be next in line by cocking the hammer, I don’t think I had an out-of-battery condition. Via my borescope, I find the empty case lined up correctly with the forcing cone, no jacket material is evident and the cylinder gap is clear. It is a tiny air gap, but visibly clear. On the recoil plate, I have minimal visibility, due to tight tolerances. If this was my Colt, it would be easy to get a stiff tool in between the cylinder and the recoil plate. I can pull the hammer back just enough to push the rear of the firing pin forward. Unfortunately, the tip of the firing pin that is stuck into the spent primer, does not move when I do this. I am of the opinion that the firing pin has fractured into two or more pieces. I would be interested to know the reason for its failure. Metallurgy of the gun is superior to most, so I can’t believe that FA uses inferior parts. The hammer force is higher than my Colt’s capability, sure. But my Trapdoor Springfield has a greater blow from its hammer, and it hasn’t broken since 1873. FA ain’t talking. If it is a geometry issue, I can believe that. Probably as good a reason as any. I assume that the firing pin has a return spring. If so, maybe it is weak. I am wandering if the only model 83 that breaks firing pins, is the .454 Casull models. I haven’t noticed anyone complaining about the issue that has a model 83 in .45 Colt or .44 Magnum, neither of which needs enough mainspring power to ignite a small rifle primer. Quite the rabbit hole this is. I look forward to the gunsmith’s findings.
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dhd
.327 Meteor
Posts: 941
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Post by dhd on Aug 20, 2021 8:00:40 GMT -5
It's a head scratcher with what happened. You stated it had sat at a shop for some time, so it could have easily been dry fired then. That's not to say it could have just decided to break for the heck of it because it was a Tuesday...
Between my shooting partner and I, we've had 2 broken pins between us on the 83's. My 44 was second hand and I have no way of knowing if the previous owner had dry fired it or not and the other was an ordered 357 that wasn't ever dry fired. At least the revolvers weren't tied up and it was a quick fix. We keep a spare FP's just in case. Even though we have FA snap caps for each revolver, we just don't dry fire them.
I have an older 454 with the unreplaceable FP and it'll have to go back when and if it breaks. My main complaint isn't the $$ for the work, it's what UPS charges for the shipping. It sounds like you're going to do what I did when my 357 FA went back (for the action job) and getting extra stuff done while it's there.
While I find that FA's can be picky, I will say that every time I shoot handguns at least one goes along for the ride.
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Post by jordanthedoberman on Aug 20, 2021 23:05:27 GMT -5
I had a good day playing gunsmith with the Casull today. It is now fixed and ready to sight in with a new bead front sight. I decided to get out my super spectacle headset and put new batteries in the headlight. I found the cylinder gap to be a miniscule .0015”. The gauge cleared both sides. The recoil plate to rear of the cylinder measures .007”. The gauge hung up halfway in the Firing Pin. I could see the pin move with my head gear, if I pushed on the hammer with the trigger back. I figured since I was going to send it to FA anyway, I would try one time to rotate the cylinder and either pull the pin sideways and break it, or make it turn loose of the spent primer. Since the bolt was firmly engaged, I slid a feeler gauge between the bolt and the cylinder notch. Cylinder still wouldn’t rotate. Final step was to turn the gun on its side with the feeler gauge keeping the bolt out of engagement. Then I use a brass punch on a bolt notch and kept tapping the punch until I saw the brass head of the spent shell roll into the loading gate. Ejected brass, found it had a deep gouge in it. Put the hammer on half-cock and removed the cylinder. Firing pin looks fine, and protrudes correctly for ignition. I don’t know if it is protruding too far, as I have no reference for this measurement. Doesn’t really matter, since this firing pin is going to get replaced with the replaceable type after I get the elevation set with the new front sight. First, I’ll load up a box and see if I can hit some 200 yard steel. I’m still not confident enough to tear this gun completely down. Maybe after I buy a new spare. Ain’t nothing like bringing a box of parts to a mechanic when you tear a Quadrajet down for rebuild, and have parts left over when you think you are done.
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Post by x101airborne on Aug 21, 2021 7:51:17 GMT -5
I know the quadrajet feeling. I used to remove and reinstall automatic transmissions. LOL. I have not taken my FA apart. I hear they can be a bear.
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Post by bradshaw on Aug 21, 2021 8:56:09 GMT -5
David, Your idea seems possible, but since I was loading each round singly, then rotating the loaded cylinder to be next in line by cocking the hammer, I don’t think I had an out-of-battery condition. Via my borescope, I find the empty case lined up correctly with the forcing cone, no jacket material is evident and the cylinder gap is clear. It is a tiny air gap, but visibly clear. On the recoil plate, I have minimal visibility, due to tight tolerances. If this was my Colt, it would be easy to get a stiff tool in between the cylinder and the recoil plate. I can pull the hammer back just enough to push the rear of the firing pin forward. Unfortunately, the tip of the firing pin that is stuck into the spent primer, does not move when I do this. I am of the opinion that the firing pin has fractured into two or more pieces. I would be interested to know the reason for its failure. Metallurgy of the gun is superior to most, so I can’t believe that FA uses inferior parts. The hammer force is higher than my Colt’s capability, sure. But my Trapdoor Springfield has a greater blow from its hammer, and it hasn’t broken since 1873. FA ain’t talking. If it is a geometry issue, I can believe that. Probably as good a reason as any. I assume that the firing pin has a return spring. If so, maybe it is weak. I am wandering if the only model 83 that breaks firing pins, is the .454 Casull models. I haven’t noticed anyone complaining about the issue that has a model 83 in .45 Colt or .44 Magnum, neither of which needs enough mainspring power to ignite a small rifle primer. Quite the rabbit hole this is. I look forward to the gunsmith’s findings. ***** Suspect firing pin broke in two, with the broken-off tip intact. The parts are hard, not prone to smearing like mild steel. Usually, a broke firing pin drops back into the standing breech enough to allow rotation. BLANKINGIf the proimer blanked----extruded into the firing pin hole----the little plug of primer cup seizes the cylinder against rotation. Takes a lot of pressure to blank a small rifle primer. However, a weak mainspring which is strong enough to ignite the primer may be too weak to hold the primer against flowing into the firing pin hole. I would elevate the muzzle and tap the to-strap with a plastic or leather or lead hammer; see if the broken piece retracts enough to move cylinder. Springfield 1873 TrapdoorMy late shooting partner, Ed Versge, said some trapdoors were made with a beryllium firing pin, prone to break if dry fired on an empty chamber. David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on Aug 21, 2021 9:08:54 GMT -5
I know the quadrajet feeling. I used to remove and reinstall automatic transmissions. LOL. I have not taken my FA apart. I hear they can be a bear. ***** Trey.... the Dick Casull era M-83 has a leaf mainspring which bolts in the front strap. Stripping these revolvers is country simple. Later in production, the grip frame was cast with a notch to hold the mainspring. Disassembly and assembly is a bear without a special spring vise to de-tension the mainspring. David Bradshaw
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Post by needsmostuff on Aug 21, 2021 9:27:27 GMT -5
I know the quadrajet feeling. Never had a Quadrajet . All my GMs had Quadrafloods or Quadradrips.
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Post by rkcohen on Aug 23, 2021 9:43:50 GMT -5
...just curious - after you shoot a turtle, what do you do with it?
when i was a kid, i had an aunt that would pop a turtle with her 22 - then cook it. if i recall, i wasn't bad..
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Post by bigbore5 on Aug 28, 2021 2:53:14 GMT -5
The pin broke in my 353 which has never been dry fired. After I got it back with the replaceable pin, I haven't broken a one
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groo
.327 Meteor
I yet live!!!!
Posts: 855
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Post by groo on Aug 31, 2021 15:00:34 GMT -5
Groo here I have 2 454's [7 1/2 and a 4 3/4] Been shot , dry fired etc no problems. However mine are "old" ,, the short barrel is one of the first of the replaceable forcing cone barrels and the other is one of the first with adj sights. The only restriction was NOT to fire unless all chambers had cases in them or the back blast could damage the loading gate... PS The original loads were much higher than those shown now adays.......
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Post by jordanthedoberman on Aug 31, 2021 21:25:53 GMT -5
Groo, Is your adjustable rear sight adjustable for Windage the same way a S&W rear sight is, by turning a screw that moves the sight blade, or the type where you loosen a screw up top that clamps down on the blade, allowing the blade to be moved left or right? My gun was built in 1994. It has a regular forcing cone, the mainspring is held on with a nut, and the rear sight, while “adjustable” isn’t precise. I assume from pictures that I have seen, that some of the model 83 adjustable sights are made with click-adjustable windage screws. If so, I will order one to replace my trial and error type. Thanks! Jordan
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