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AutoMag
Jul 22, 2021 9:17:29 GMT -5
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Post by pacecars on Jul 22, 2021 9:17:29 GMT -5
While thinking about the guns I wanted in my youth the Automag is high on the list. Several years ago a small shop had a .41 AMP at a decent price. I hesitated and told them to let me think about it. Well it only took me about 30 minutes after leaving to decide I should have bought it so but it was closing time when I left so it would have to wait until the next day. I went right when they opened and found the police there when I arrived. Turns out they were broken into that night and one of the guns stolen was the Automag. I have kicked myself a lot for that one. So I have started looking and trying to find one at a decent price. Not an easy task. I have checked out the web site of the new company and they say they are shipping them out but can’t find anyone that has one to see how they are working out. Anyone have one of the new ones? Their prices are about what I see the old ones going for
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AutoMag
Jul 22, 2021 10:27:24 GMT -5
Post by bradshaw on Jul 22, 2021 10:27:24 GMT -5
pacecars.... my affair with the Auto Mag began and died before the advent of Handgun Silhouette. I lived with a 6-1/2” Model 29 on my hip, a revolver of ferocious refinement, accuracy & reliability. The .44 Auto Mag taught me quick it doesn’t stand a chance against a good sixgun for reliability. Taught me quick the gun had been put into production before resolution of various design and metallurgy requirements. When I joined the steel shooting fray in 1977, Auto Mags were in the firing line and no stranger to the winner’s circle. Mostly single loaded.
And then the IHMSA Production rule was amended to require a repeater be fired as a repeater----not single loaded. That, along with accumulating parts breakage, bled pocketbooks and doomed shooter interest. World Combat Pistol Champion Ray Chapman tried to sell me his Auto Mag .44 10-inch at the the firsts IHMSA championship (1977). I asked why he wanted to sell it. “Jams,” says Chapman. We had a good laugh over that, then Ray asked me to shoot with him at his combat range on weekends, as I would be in Los Angeles for six weeks making sculpture in a welding shop in Watts.
Colt Python maestro and fellow IHMSA All-American Jerry Moran tells me the new Auto Mag may cure unresolved issues of the original. I’d want to see for myself.
Once-upon-a-time I swung the mountains packing a 3-pound .44 (still do, along with the Ruger 03 .45). I tried the Auto Mag in similar carry. Took one whitetail with it; never tracked a deer with a hole through its lungs so deep into a cedar bog. Mainly, however, the Auto Mag would not submit to unobtrusive carry on my hip. Not like a sixgun. Nor would the Auto Mag convince me to trust it. David Bradshaw
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AutoMag
Jul 22, 2021 11:13:11 GMT -5
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Post by pacecars on Jul 22, 2021 11:13:11 GMT -5
That’s what I needed to hear. I planned to call Jack Huntington as I know he is a big fan of them and find out what he does to them to make them reliable. I can’t imagine he would put up with them jamming all the time or using them as a single shot. I may just wait until the jury is out on the new ones. It ain’t like I NEED one. Seems the only reliable big bore auto is the Desert Eagle. I used to want a Wildey but hear they have serious issues also. Might just stick to the revolvers
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 22, 2021 12:52:14 GMT -5
pacecars.... having not owned nor lived with the Desert Buzzard, I’m shot ‘em in .357 and .44 Mag and .50 Action Express. Considerable gas is bled at the front pf the chamber to cycle the action, which I believe cuts down on velocity otherwise expected from a closed breech. Shocked me to see the Desert Eagle .357 with 6” barrel produce velocities virtually identical to same loads in my 6-inch Python.
My limited exposure to the Desert Eagle indicates far better reliability than the Auto Mag. No better, perhaps less accuracy than the Auto Mag (Automag accuracy ranks high). Making .44 Auto Mag brass from .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO is a chore. Holsterability probably worse for the Desert Eagle, both grossly inferior to a single or double action sixgun. As for slapping leather, you guessed it.
A powerful auto pistol carries mystique. A powerful sixgun carries history. David Bradshaw
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Jul 22, 2021 14:35:41 GMT -5
As an owner of a Desert Eagle, I can weigh in a bit on their reliability, accuracy, and velocity performance. My brother had a Desert Eagle in .44 Magnum for a while. It was, in his words, the most accurate stock .44 Magnum he had ever fired. The word "stock" is important here, as he has a highly tweaked Super Redhawk that will shoot more accurately. His velocities, when chronographed, were typically slightly higher than advertised by the ammunition manufacturers. However, all was not well. He had a lot of reliability issues that drove him to selling it. I will point out that he has regretted selling it ever since. I purchased a combo of a .50 AE Desert Eagle with a .44 Magnum barrel and magazine. I later on bought the .429 Desert Eagle barrel as well. Now, before I go forward I want to say something I feel is important. Mr. Bradshaw has shared his experiences with a .357 Magnum Desert Eagle. I have no experience whatsoever with the .357 Magnum Desert Eagle and my experiences both confirm and contradict his. So please take everything I am saying as, not IN ANY WAY a refutation or challenge to Mr. Bradshaw. His experiences and knowledge are gospel to me, so I would never, ever, be trying to disrespect him in any way. I am simply stating my experiences. That's all. My least experience so far is with the .429 DE barrel as it is so new to me. I have gotten solid performance from factory and handloaded ammunition that backs up the claims. So that's good. Recoil is more than a .44 Magnum DE, but not at all unreasonable. I have also experienced fewer malfunctions with this round and the .50 AE versus the .44 Magnum. I am guessing that is to do with the rebated rim versus the revolver style rim of the .44 Magnum case. The accuracy has been very good, but I haven't really tried to group with it much so the jury's still out. If you want to hunt with an automatic pistol, this is the round I recommend as it has something over the other rounds available in this gun. The .44 Magnum has produced very solid and repeatable accuracy. Mine hasn't been any better than a good revolver so I will agree with Mr. Bradhsaw that it isn't something I would buy the gun for. It's great, but so is my Super Redhawk. The recoil is no worse than a 10mm. Honestly, all that weight makes this a favorite of my 5'6" wife and my 14 year old nephew who still weighs under 150 lbs. Now, like my brother, I have had solid performance with velocity. In fact, My 6" Desert Eagle gets slightly higher velocities than my 7.5" barrel SRH! I was honestly shocked by this. It's not massive, like 20 to 50 fps. But here's the bugaboo. Reliability is HEAVILY dependent on your ammo! The Desert Eagle in .44 Magnum DOES NOT like hot ammo! I have found ammo over 1,300 fps will have SIGNIFICANTLY increased malfunctions! This is why I recommend the .429 DE for hunting. Also, the Desert Eagle LOVES to be highly lubricated. With sub 1,300 fps ammo and good lubrication, the .44 Magnum will function very well. Now to the round that has me gob-smacked in a positive way. The .50 Action Express. Here's where I can confirm EXACTLY what Mr. Bradshaw said about lost velocity. When I have chronographed the same ammo in my 5.5" BFR revolver and my Desert Eagle with a 6" barrel, I see a loss of 100 to 200 fps. OUCH! It stings, that is for sure. Very disappointing. Reliability has been the best with this round. But the gun always seems to shoot the brass back at my face. I recommend a hat. The .429 DE does this too, and hot .44 Magnum. If the .44 Magnum is the right velocity for the gun it is lazily ejected to the right. But the real shocker for me here is the accuracy. Seriously. The .50 AE barrel I have is REMARKABLY accurate! I would love to put this into a marksman's hands and see what they can do. I am not a marksman, but the best group I have ever shot in my life was with the .50 AE Desert Eagle using 325gr Speer Gold Dots reloaded. I shot a 5-shot group, standing, at 11 yards (10 meters) that came in at 13/16 of an inch! I will post the picture as I am rather proud of this. All in all, if you want one, they are VERY expensive but fun. If you want a good .44 Magnum, I agree with Mr. Bradshaw that a revolver's a better choice. If you want a fun novelty, the .50 AE is fun, powerful, accurate, and LOUD ENOUGH TO GATHER A CROWD! IF you want to hunt, the .429 DE would be the go-to for me. Excellent performance to rival the .445 SuperMag and .44 AMP. Here's that picture:
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 22, 2021 15:37:43 GMT -5
Quick Draw McGraw.... your articulate impressions are a compliment to the forum. And now I shall back up your ejected shell experience. My introduction to the Desert Eagle experience came in .357 Mag. Forget the brim of a sombrero to protect your face from flying brass, I was grateful for my Bausch & Lomb shooting glasses: one shell ejects 90-degrees to the boreline, the next zips high overhead, followed by another jet two inches beside my eye!
I remember running a so-called tactical exercise, shooting an HK 91 from the second floor of a house, .308 brass embedding its shark-bite into the windowsill beside me. I’ve caught M-1 brass down my neck from the guy next to me. Haven’t caught a Heckler & Kock ejection in the eye or side of my face. I put Deasert Eagle ejection in the HK category.
Glad to hear of accuracy from the Desert Eagle. Had it been around----with decent sights----in the early days of silhouette, folks would have brought it to the firing line. David Bradshaw
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Jul 24, 2021 4:34:48 GMT -5
Quick Draw McGraw.... your articulate impressions are a compliment to the forum. And now I shall back up your ejected shell experience. My introduction to the Desert Eagle experience came in .357 Mag. Forget the brim of a sombrero to protect your face from flying brass, I was grateful for my Bausch & Lomb shooting glasses: one shell ejects 90-degrees to the boreline, the next zips high overhead, followed by another jet two inches beside my eye! I remember running a so-called tactical exercise, shooting an HK 91 from the second floor of a house, .308 brass embedding its shark-bite into the windowsill beside me. I’ve caught M-1 brass down my neck from the guy next to me. Haven’t caught a Heckler & Kock ejection in the eye or side of my face. I put Deasert Eagle ejection in the HK category. Glad to hear of accuracy from the Desert Eagle. Had it been around----with decent sights----in the early days of silhouette, folks would have brought it to the firing line. David Bradshaw Yeah, that .50 AE brass has put scratches on my glasses, burned my cheek, and given me quite the bonk in the nose! That stuff is heavier than you'd think.
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Post by x101airborne on Jul 24, 2021 7:48:44 GMT -5
Apologize for the drift. Mr. Bradshaw is correct on the 91. I fired 3 rounds from the drivers seat of my truck at a coyote from my 91. When the yote was dead I looked up to see three spider web cracks across my line of sight in my truck windshield. I think it gets nominated for the most expensive yote ever award.
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cj
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 22
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Post by cj on Jul 24, 2021 12:46:34 GMT -5
Outstanding discussion, thank you all. This is off topic, but Mr. Bradshaw could you please elaborate on “ as I would be in Los Angeles for six weeks making sculpture in a welding shop in Watts.’”? Thank you. CJ
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Post by lockhart on Jul 25, 2021 11:29:30 GMT -5
I had one of the old High Standard marked TDE Automags in .357 AMP caliber. Velocity was one of its main features, as well as accuracy. It would shoot 5 rounds in a row, most times, without jamming. I took 12 whitetail deer with it in the course of 4 years. Mine was the 8.5" barrel, without vented rib. I paid the grand sum of 375 dollars for it at McBrides gun shop in Austin, Texas. I shot about a thousand rounds through mine without breaking ANYTHING. Like a fool, I traded mine off for something I thought I needed at the time. I had no trouble packing mine for hunting, I just used a Bianchi shoulder holster made for the Model 29 8 3/8's barrel. I also carry my Desert Eagle .50 AE in an Uncle Mikes chest carry holster. Of the two pistols, the Desert Eagle is easily the most dependable. IF I had the money to spare, I might buy one of the new ones, but being retired now, and having to depend on Social Security, plus odd jobs, I will just have to make do with my S & W .500, Ruger .480 Super Redhawk, and my .50 AE. I had a wonderful experience with my Automag, but I think I have all bases covered for handgun hunting big game with the handguns I have now.
P.S. The time frame I'm talking about was '74-'78
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 29, 2021 15:21:15 GMT -5
Outstanding discussion, thank you all. This is off topic, but Mr. Bradshaw could you please elaborate on “ as I would be in Los Angeles for six weeks making sculpture in a welding shop in Watts.’”? Thank you. CJ ***** Had the opportunity to make steel works in a welding shop just a stone’s throw (several blocks) from Roy Weatherby’s shop on, as I recall, Firestone Boulevard, the high-ceilinged shop very much in operation in 1977. Welding shop where I worked on my sculpture, Big Frank Benjamin was the foreman, hands the size of George Foreman’s. One day, Big Frank Benjamin pulls a .25 Auto from his pocket----it looked like a postage stamp in his hand----and asks me to fix the buggered-up firing pin. I fixed it and Big Frank and I got on even better after that. Low riders would come around, asking Big Frank to perform a cheap lowering job by heating the coil springs. Big Frank soon quit the practice, declaring it made the car unsafe. Silhouetters weren't the only handgunners to push Rocks & Dynamite in those days. Ray Chapman introduced me to a few IPSC shooter’s who pushed the 1911 to a degree I would not have tried. David Bradshaw
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Post by tonyrumore on Aug 2, 2021 17:24:15 GMT -5
First off, you guys are talking about the Auto Mag, not the Automag. They are two completely different pistols. I have been buying, selling and collecting big bore autos since the 80's including a crap load of Auto Mags in 44, 41, 357, and 30LMP. I have also owned and own many multiples of all the other big bore auto's including the LAR Grizzly, Desert Eagle, Wildey, Coonan, and every caliber Automag as well. With that said, the Wildey is pretty much the biggest POS of the bunch, closely followed by the Automag. The Desert Eagle isn't much better, the Coonan is OK, but the two best are the Auto Mag and the LAR Grizzly. If the new Auto Mag turns out to be reliable, it will most likely take the number one spot among the group.
One thing that really sets the Auto Mag apart from the rest of the pack is it's ability to handle quick change caliber swaps without needing to re-sight the gun. Sure, you can swap barrels/calibers with the others, but having to re-sight-in the gun is a serious drawback. Here's a 21 shot group I fired back in the 80's using 3 Auto Mag barrels. One in 44AMP, one in 41JMP and one in 357AMP all on the same frame. I fired all 21 shots back-to-back in just a couple of minutes. Range is 50 feet. Hand held, standing.
Tony
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Post by tonyrumore on Aug 2, 2021 17:40:37 GMT -5
Here's another group I fired on that same day, again at 50 feet, hand held standing, but just 5 shots from the 41JMP Auto Mag barrel. I put the first 4 shots into one hole, then got all excited and tossed one way out. I was REALLY pissed off at myslef....I had a serious bragging group going on and let it slip away from me. I was 23 years old at the time. Tony
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AutoMag
Aug 2, 2021 18:00:55 GMT -5
Post by bigbrowndog on Aug 2, 2021 18:00:55 GMT -5
Tony, the accuracy I got from mine was more than adequate to bordering on terrific, it also functioned for my purpose of hunting. However I was able to get excellent info and feedback from Lee Jurras, on how to load the gun for function first, and accuracy after functioning was sorted out.
Trapr
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AutoMag
Aug 2, 2021 19:02:59 GMT -5
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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Aug 2, 2021 19:02:59 GMT -5
Here's another group I fired on that same day, again at 50 feet, hand held standing, but just 5 shots from the 41JMP Auto Mag barrel. I put the first 4 shots into one hole, then got all excited and tossed one way out. I was REALLY pissed off at myslef....I had a serious bragging group going on and let it slip away from me. I was 23 years old at the time. Tony I call that the "humble shot". Several times I have been on the brink of being able to say, "check THIS out," only to make a humble shot due to my excitement. I feel for you, sir. Excellent shooting, by the way. I have heard the Auto Mags were great in terms of accuracy.
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