J.P. Sauer & Sohn Western Six Shooters History

[libertyordeath]

I have been researching a firearm passed down from my father.  The research has had many twists and turns, often leaving more questions than answers.  I have scoured the web, forum threads, old gun magazines, and various assortments of public records.  The firearm in question is a J.P. Sauer & Sohn "L.A. Western Six Shooter" model .357 Magnum.  Thus far I have amassed and categorized a relevant history to the best of my current findings.  I am hoping to post this chronology in hopes that some of the experts on this site might be able to chime in with some additional insight or correct any bad information I may have incorporated. Below is the work in progress, thanks to all who made be able to shed any light upon it:

1. 1751 - J. P. Sauer & Sohn is founded in Suhl, Germany by Lorenz Sauer. A manufacturer of firearms and machinery and is currently the oldest firearms manufacturer still active in Germany.

2. 1873 - The Colt Single Action Army, also known as the SAA, Model P, Peacemaker, and M1873 is born. The Colt SAA "Peacemaker" revolver is a famous piece of Americana coined as “The Gun that Won the West”.

3. 1940 - Colt discontinues the famous Colt SAA to focus production resources on its military arms contracts.

4. 1951 – After the fall of Germany during WW2, J.P. Sauer & Sohn re-establishes its business under Rolf-Dietrich Sauer in non-communist controlled Eckernförde in West Germany.

5. 1954 - Engineer William R. Wilson along with several other firearm professionals set out to recreate the Colt SAA forming the Great Western Arms Company and manufacturing the first Colt SAA clone with distribution being handled by the mail-order impresario Haywood “Hy” Hunter.

6. 1955 – Colt re-introduces the Colt Single Action Army back into production and the Ruger “Blackhawk” enters the market.

7. 1958 – Great Western Arms Company begins to fail financially; Haywood “Hy” Hunter’s distributor relationship with Great Western Arms is terminated and is replaced by a smaller mail-order house called E&M (Early & Modern Firearms, Inc.).

8. 1959 – Haywood “Hy” Hunter makes a deal with J.P. Sauer & Sohn in West Germany to make his Colt SAA clones with himself to distribute in the US. J.P. Sauer & Sohn begins production of the single action revolver named the “Western Six Shooters” with calibers ranging from .22lr to .45 Long Colt. The revolvers were made with varying barrel lengths and shell type handles made from either plastic or wood. (Approximately 300,000 were produced for the U.S. market)

9. 1960 – Haywood “Hy” Hunter begins importing and distributing the J.P. Sauer & Sohn Colt SAA clones. Being both robust and inexpensive compared to their competitors, they were immediately popular and played a role in the demise of Great Western Arms. Early & Modern Firearms, Inc also advertised and distributed these J.P. Sauer & Sohn Colt SAA clones from Mr. Hunter.

10. 1964 – Haywood “Hy” Hunter testifies before a Senate Investigating subcommittee concerning arms dealings and foreign machine gun importation. Mr. Hunter also hints at a connection between the CIA and the American Weapons Corp., the parent company of Hy Hunter Inc.

11. 1967 – Hawes Firearms Company is formed (Martha Hawes; former employee of Hy Hunter) and begins distributing the J.P. Sauer & Sohn SAA clones advertised as their “Marshal” line of single action revolvers, with such model names as:
a. Western Marshal
b. Montana Marshal
c. Silver City Marshal
d. Federal Marshal
e. Chief Marshal
f. Deputy Marshal
(Early 67’ and 68’ models can be found with the model name “Western Sixshooter”.)

12. 1980 - Hawes Firearms Company goes out of business as a result of several lawsuits involving accidental discharges of their “Marshal” line of single action revolvers. J.P. Sauer & Sohn sells their revolver operation and tooling to Herman Weihrauch Waffenfabrik in the Bavarian town of Mellrichstadt. The Weihrauch Revolver Company currently produces the SAA clone through EAA under the model name “Bounty Hunter” with updated safety features.

The firearm I have has no roll stamping of either Hy Hunter or Hawes.  It also has a Kiel proof stamp of the Oak Leaf, not the "squashed bug" found after 1968.  The revolver also has a roll stamp next to the Kiel proof of "67", which I am assuming is the date the revolver was proofed in Kiel.  The serial number doesn't follow the pattern of that of the Hy Hunter or Hawes revolvers as it has a letter followed by four numbers.  The letters appear to indicate the caliber of the gun, A=.22 B=.357 C=.45 D=.44.  I have come across several guns online that share similar marking between the years of 1964-1968.  The name of "L.A. Western Six Shooter" also seems to be an oddity found only on some of the guns found during this time period.  Hawes as a company wasn't formed until September of 1967 according to California Secretary of State records, with George Hawes listed as the registered agent.  An article about Hy Hunter in Guns Magazine lists him as running E&M Firearms Co., could this be a mistake?  Seems to be to big a mistake for such a popular gun magazine at the time.

[45MAN]

VERY INTERESTING AND INFORMATIVE. I HAVE A HAWES IN 45 COLT, HARDLY AN HEIRLOOM QUALITY REVOLVER BUT IT SERVED ME OK FOR A WHILE AS MY FIRST 45 COLT REVOLVER. A COUPLE OF YEARS LATER A SLIGHTLY BULGED CHAMBER, AND THE ACQUISITION OF A RUGER OM 7.5" BLACKHAWK IN 45 COLT, AND THE HAWES WAS SET ASIDE. NEED TO PULL IT OUT AND CHECK IT AGAINST THE INFO ABOVE.

[needsmostuff]

Cool , that tidies up some timeline questions I have never put together before. Now you just got to squeeze the Herter's line of revolvers in there.
I have a old 357 with LA Deputy marked on the bottom of the gripframe . Just a serial # and no other rollmarks at all . Just some German proofs and I believe a tiny 68.
Probably just a parts gun as wear on hammer cam and bolt leg throw timing out the window .Easy fix with parts but MEH, not many of those around.
To bad , kind of a fun gun that when it does work is actually pretty tight.
Any reference to what the L.A. is ? Simply Los Angeles or something else ?
What seems to be the split between the Hawes marked and the L.A. marked guns ? Different distributers ?

[taffin]

#3 DATE IS 1940

[libertyordeath]

Jul 12, 2021 8:14:55 GMT -5 needsmostuff said:

Cool , that tidies up some timeline questions I have never put together before. Now you just got to squeeze the Herter's line of revolvers in there.
I have a old 357 with LA Deputy marked on the bottom of the gripframe . Just a serial # and no other rollmarks at all . Just some German proofs and I believe a tiny 68.
Probably just a parts gun as wear on hammer cam and bolt leg throw timing out the window .Easy fix with parts but MEH, not many of those around.
To bad , kind of a fun gun that when it does work is actually pretty tight.
Any reference to what the L.A. is ? Simply Los Angeles or something else ?
What seems to be the split between the Hawes marked and the L.A. marked guns ? Different distributors ?

I believe that L.A. is indicative of "Los Angeles", it would make sense as L.A. was the largest oversees importer of foreign made weapons during that time period.  As far as the importer and distributor, that's were I have come up with no certain answers.  By 1968, Hy Hunter's name had already been smeared for gun running and his overt presence in the industry had become almost non-existent as far as I can tell.  E&M had also been marketing the German made SAA clones, but there is a distinct difference to be found between the "big bore" made revolvers and the smaller caliber .22's that were often made by other foreign gun manufacturers such as Rohm.  I have also come across claims that many of these small caliber revolvers were also manufactured in Italy.  The quality of the material, fit, and finish for these revolvers were often sub par compared to the revolvers made by J.P. Sauer.  The .357 Magnums, .45 Long Colts, and .44 Magnums made by J.P. Sauer & Sohn utilize Chrome-molybdenum steel for the barrel, cylinder, and frame.  The grip frame, backstrap, trigger guard, and ejector tube are made from a material called ZAMAK (Zinc, Aluminum, MAgnesium, and Kupfer).  I haven't been able to establish what exactly was the relationship between Hy Hunter and Hawes other than claims made that Martha Hawes was an employee of Mr. Hunter at one time (secretary is the most common claim).

[lar4570]

I have a Hawes 357 that is marked Western Marshall and the serial number ends in /3

[libertyordeath]

Jul 12, 2021 8:27:44 GMT -5 taffin said:

#3 DATE IS 1940

Thanks taffin! Re-looked at this, so much misinformation on the web. 

[bamagreg]

I had a Hawes Western Marshall in 45 Colt for a while. I seem to recall paying $200 for it off the used gun shelf at a local shop

[rocdoc]

Fascinating! THIS is the kind of stuff that is really interesting to me. Thanks for posting!

[wildbill]

I know they were both introduced in 1873 but I thought the Winchester '73 was "The gun that won the west"? The Colt 1873 was: "God made man, Sam Colt (and the peacemaker) made them equal."

[libertyordeath]

Jul 12, 2021 21:03:34 GMT -5 wildbill said:

I know they were both introduced in 1873 but I thought the Winchester '73 was "The gun that won the west"? The Colt 1873 was: "God made man, Sam Colt (and the peacemaker) made them equal."

Their both correct, and both are attributed to the "winning the west" accolade.  The one that gets left off that deserves some recognition as well in this title (probably derived from a marketing stand point) is the double barrelled shotgun, also a weapon that played a pivotal role in the West during that time.  Love that Sam Colt reference quote.

[taffin]

THE WEST WAS WON BY MANY THINGS INCLUDING THE WINCHESTER,SHOTGUN AND COLT. BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT INGREDIENT WAS WOMEN. WOMEN WHO DEMANDED SCHOOLS AND CHURCHES AND A SAFE ENVIRONMENT FOR THEIR CHILDREN..

[Lee Martin]

I own a few Sauer & Sohn single-actions (Hy Hunter, Hawes, & Herters). All are very well constructed. The only gripe I ever had with them were the plastic grips on certain models. They cracked easily.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
"Chasing perfection five shots at a time"

[ddixie884]

My first .44 Magnum was a Hawes Western Marshall. I bought it while I was in the Navy about 1972. I think I gave about $89 for it at Gibsons Discount Center.......

[sackpeterson]

OP: I know you've read my timeline for Great Western and encourage you in your project for this.  Here's a few details that might be helpful.

Re point 5, 1954... the organization of Great Western starts in 1953.  Hy Hunter wasn't an equity holder in Great Western, but he was a driving force.  Great Western's main buyer was going to be Hy Hunter Inc.  Hy Hunter took customer deposits for pre-order in 1953 and paid Great Western for say the first 500 guns.  And all the marketing energy came from Hy Hunter.

Re point 7... change that to 56.  Great Western went debtor in possession to Ferrocast, its components supplier.  FerroCast terminated the Hy Hunter distribution and made a new agreement with Stoeger, first.  E&M / EMF enters the mix in a different way, locally there in socal.

Re pt 8, 59 and up.  Hunter not only engaged Sauer to build revolvers, he brought them Great Western's to copy.  The Sauer revolver is a clone of the Great Western with some changes, particularly some Ruger like use of alloys for some parts.  The Sauer people also adopted the Blackhawk's cylinder width for centerfires.

Re pts 10 & 11 - Hunter was forced out of the firearms business having played too fast and loose with imports and and some obvious and standard regs on prohibited items.  Right, the enterprise was retitled in the name of Martha and George Hawes.  I have no idea who George is.  Martha was understood as bright, and a veteran of those gun businesses in socal.  I'm to understand she ended up marrying Bob Green, who was Wilson's #2 at Great Western.  Hawes Inc was also the first US importer of the SIG pistol in the late 70s.

No roll stamped Sauer sixguns....  There were a couple distributors here in the States.  Herters sold them, although I have seen theirs roll stamped.  "Liberty" was another, then E&M.  I have a sense the non roll stamped one's were those E&M was getting.

The Guns mag article that says Hy Hunter started E&M.... that article is from 1955.  So did he found E&M?  He might have.  He put together different entities for different purposes from the 50's to the time he got out of the business.  Now, I've talked to the folks at EMF, and talked to Boyd Davis when he was alive.  The un-official corporate history that those folks understand is Ed Spinney Sr and Jr founded EMF, and Boyd married into the family and bought the business in 1971 or so.  But Boyd described Hy Hunter and the Spinney's as friends from way back in that time.  Fact is, E&M/EMFs catalog practices came straight out of that Hy Hunter mail order ecosystem, and then E&M basically took up that task of being the importer for the Sauer firearms line as Hunter was getting himself into trouble in the early 60's.  There is a shared history and relationship between the companies.