de1216
.30 Stingray
Posts: 303
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Post by de1216 on May 30, 2021 9:31:22 GMT -5
I've never had one in hand, don't know anyone who has one. How are they with various bullet weights, jacketed vs cast, etc?
Like everything else, the prices are up compared to when I was watching them occasionally show up online for sale 1 1/2 yr ago. That makes it even more important to find out if they are friendly or fussy.
Any input?
D.
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Post by seminolewind on May 30, 2021 10:12:15 GMT -5
I hunted with a couple for several years. Killed my first whitetail with one. They were 100% reliable with jacketed bullets, but I never tried cast. My guess is that cast loads would dirty up the gas system and cause problems. They are neat little hunting carbines.
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Post by taffin on May 30, 2021 10:16:07 GMT -5
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Post by taffin on May 30, 2021 10:18:08 GMT -5
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Post by taffin on May 30, 2021 10:36:42 GMT -5
Ruger not only replaced the original Deerstalker, they added two more .44 Magnum carbines to their catalog. The Ruger 96/44was Ruger’s .44 Magnum lever action using a rotary magazine holding four rounds, and is scope ready with Ruger rings and scalloped receiver as found on Ruger's Model 77 bolt action rifle. For those that chose not to scope the Model 96, all models have adjustable rear sights and a bead front sight. Magazines are quite easy to load, and are certainly more convenient to use than the standard lever action carbine loading system which requires rounds to be inserted through a port opening in the right side of the receiver. The 96/44 has a barrel length of 18-1/2" with a weight slightly under 6 pounds, and test firing in cold weather while wearing a heavy jacket resulted in no unpleasant recoil being experienced. It would be somewhat different in warmer weather when used by the shooter in shirt sleeves; however since this is a hunting rifle pure and simple, and also since most hunting takes place in cold weather, I do not see this being a problem. For test firing, the Model 96/44 was equipped with a Weaver 2.5X scope using the Ruger rings provided. Sighting in proved to be quick and easy, and no malfunctions of any kind occurred during any of the time that the Ruger Model 96/44 was test-fired or simply used for that grand old past time of plinking big bore style. This lever action, whose lever is case colored, works slickly and easily and all rounds chamber smoothly. The Model 96/44 comes easily to the shoulder and points naturally for this shooter. It would be a top choice for hunting in deep timber for anything of the deer/ black bear/hog sized category. The .44 Magnum is an excellent hunting round in a sixgun or carbine when ranges are kept at 100 yards or less. Some guns seem to group all loads close to the same point of impact; not so with this .44 Magnum. It must be carefully sighted in with each load as it throws different loads to quite different points of impact. Sighting in with one brand of 240s, for example, and then hunting with another brand without re-checking the point of impact could result in a bad situation. When sighted in for 240s, 180s shot very high while 300s shot very low; 6” or more in both cases. The .44 Magnum Model 96/44 was also fired in cold weather with temperatures that registered in the 20s and a stiff wind blowing; typical hunting weather. Group results are for the best three out of four shots from a full magazine; from the results it is easy to see that this carbine has more than adequate hunting accuracy. Groups are three shots at 50 yards: Load MV Groups Black Hills 240 JHP 1604 fps 3/4" Black Hills 300 XTP 1,389 fps 2" Blazer 240 JHP 1,361 fps 1-3/8" CCI Lawman 240 JHP 1,721 fps 1-3/4" Cor-Bon 300 XTP 1,389 fps 1-1/2" Federal 180 Hi-Shok HP 2,175 fps 2" Federal 240 Hi-Shok HP 1,674 fps 2" Hornady 180 XTP-HP 2,145 fps 1-1/4" Hornady 200 XTP-HP 1,771 fps 1- 1/2" Hornady 300 XTP-HP 1,347 fps 2" Speer Gold Dot 270 FP 1,546 fps 1-1/2" Remington 210 SJ-HP 1,906 fps 1-1/2" Remington 240 Semi-Jacket HP 1,782 fps 2" Winchester 210 SilverTip HP 1,586 fps 2-1/4" Winchester 240 JHP 1,720 fps 3/4" Ruger’s 99/44 Deerfield was the replacement for the 1960s Deerstalker. Marlin and Winchester took notice of the desire for sixgunners to have a companion carbine in .44 Magnum early and by the latter part of the 1960s offered their Model 336 and 1894 leverguns, usually found in .30-30 persuasion, in .44 Magnum. However, Bill Ruger, strictly a handgun manufacturer up to this point, beat them to the punch by several years with the first Ruger rifle, the Deerstalker. In 1961, two years after the introduction of the Super Blackhawk, Ruger's companion .44 Magnum long gun arrived, not as a traditional lever action rifle, but a thoroughly modern semi-automatic carbine. Its name hailed it as the perfect deer rifle for close range work in deep woods. It gained immediate popularity among Eastern deer hunters especially. As so often happened with manufacturers, Ruger dropped the original .44 carbine because of the cost of production. In the new Deerfield, this expense has been addressed with simplified gas-operated feeding mechanisms, and instead of a tubular magazine, the Deerfield operatesfrom a four-round rotary magazine. The Deerfield is quite selective as to which ammunition it will use, and overall length must be such that cartridges will enter the magazine, thus precluding the use of some of the Heavy-Duty hunting ammunition now available with long 300 grain bullets. One notable exception is .44 Magnum Ammo loaded with 300 grain Hornady XTPs. Speer’s heavy-duty loading using the 270 grain Gold Dot also feeds flawlessly and the Deerfield easily handles the .44 Magnum loads with both 180 and 200 grain JHP bullets, however Ruger cautions against the use of cast bullets because of the danger of lead buildup in the gasport. Although the Deerfield comes with a gold bead front sight and receiver-mounted rear sight, I chose to use a Simmons 4X scope mounted with the excellent Ruger rings. Due to both the gas operating system and an excellent stock design, felt recoil of the Deerfield is held to a minimum; in fact, this is one very pleasant-shooting rifle. The recoil experienced is much less than one would expect for the muzzle energy that is delivered. The Deerfield is primarily a close-range hunting rifle for animals the size of deer and black bear. Testing shows this is one very accurate rifle, especially given that we're shooting rather stubby sixgun bullets instead of conventional rifle bullets. At 50 yards, three-shot groups of less than one inch were not all that uncommon. Groups listed are for three shots at 50 yards with some also listed for 100 yards. Load MV 50 Yards 100 Yards Black Hills 240 JHP 1,643 fps 3/4" 2" Black Hills 300 XTP 1,432 fps 1-3/8" Cor-Bon 240 JHP 1,835 fps 3/4" Cor-Bon 300 XTP 1,563 fps 1" Federal 180 JHP 2,105 fps 1-1/4" Hornady 180 XTP 1,768 fps 1-1/4" Hornady 200 XTP 2,058 fps 1-1/8" Hornady 240 XTP 1,879 fps 1-1/2" 2-1/2" Hornady 300 XTP 1,462 fps 3/4" Speer 270 Gold Dot 1,645 fps 1-1/8" 1-1/4" Winchester 250 Partition Gold 1,675 fps 5/8" 1-3/8" Ruger’s third .44 Magnum entry in the long gun arena was the bolt action Model 77/44. At one time Remington offered the .44 Magnum in bolt gun form as the Model 788, however it is now long gone from their catalog. When I heard rumors of a bolt action .44 Magnum my first thought was why would anyone want a bolt action .44 Magnum? The .44 Magnum is a great cartridge when used in single action and double action sixguns and slick handling lever action and semi-auto carbines; but in a bolt gun? The bolt action .44 Magnum from Ruger turned out to be one dandy little carbine that dispelled any misgivings I may have had about such a chambering in a bolt action rifle. With the same 18-1/2" barrel length as found on the old Deerstalker, if anything, the 77/44 feels even more compact and handles even easier. Conventional leverguns are often difficult to load through their loading gates on the side of the receiver especially in cold weather. The 77/44, as all Ruger .44 long guns reloads quickly with the removal of an empty magazine by pressing in on the lever behind the bottom of the magazine which is then replaced by a full magazine that carries easily in a jacket pocket. A bolt action rifle it may be, but due to its very short, slightly over two inches, bolt throw, with a little practice the Model 77/44 may actually be faster in operation than a lever gun especially those built on the old 19th Century lever gun patterns. As with all Ruger rifles, the Model 77/44 features the standard integral scope mount bases to accept Ruger rings as well as a folding leaf rear sight that is fully adjustable for windage by carefully tapping right or left, with a punch and light hammer designed for such operations, and elevation by loosening two screws and moving the white diamond accented rear leaf up or down. The front sight is an easy to see gold bead that mates well with the rounded notch in the rear sight blade. Better than average sights for those that prefer open sights. Ruger's Model 77/44 featured the same well-designed stock as found on the Model 77/22. Made of real American walnut, the slim stock features sling studs, black recoil pad, and acceptable checkering on pistol grip and forearm. With .44 Magnum loads in such a lightweight, six-pound, rifle, the stock design coupled with the factory recoil pad keeps felt recoil to a minimum. To mate with the compact features of the Ruger Model 77/44, a suitable scope was chosen, namely Weaver's 1.5-3X variable. The low setting is perfect for woods use or close up work on wild hogs or bears, while the upper setting is as much as would ever be needed to match with the range of the .44 Magnum cartridge from a carbine barrel. If the Ruger Model 77/44 had one drawback it is the factthe magazine will not accept rounds with long-nosed bullets which means such excellent hunting rounds featuring heavyweight bullets as Garrett's 310 grain hard cast Keith bullet .44 Magnum load cannot be used in this .44 carbine except as a single shot. The same is true for the old standard Keith loading of the 260 grain hard cast semi-wadcutter bullet over 22.0 grains of #2400. Potent it may be but it will not feed through the action of the Model 77/44. The vast majority of .44 Magnum ammunition offered with 240 grain hollow point bullets is for broadside shots on deer with something else needed for deep penetration. Those loads with hard cast Keith bullets may not be usable, however, excellent hunting rounds for wild pigs and black bear such as Cor-Bon's 300 XTP, Speer's 270 grain Gold Dot, and Winchester's 260 grain Partition Gold will feed through the Model 77/44 action and also shoot extremely well. Make no mistake about it, this is one accurate, and easy shooting little carbine! The accompanying chart shows several loads that stay well under one-inch at 50 yards for three shots, including Cor-Bon's 300 grain XTP loaded round at 1,500 fps and Winchester's Partition Gold 260 at 1,680 fps: Load MV Groups Black Hills 240 JHP 1,653 fps 1-3/8" Black Hills 300 JHP 1,423 fps 2-1/2" Cor-Bon 240 JHP 1,820 fps 1-3/4" Cor-Bon 300 XTP 1,512 fps 7/8" CCI Blazer 240 JHP 1,367 fps 1 -1/2" Federal 180 Hi-Shok JHP 2,225 fps 1" Federal 240 Hi-Shok JHP 1,759 fps 7/8" Hornady 180 XTP 2,200 fps 1-3/4" Oklahoma Ammunition 240 FMJ 1,710 fps 3/8" Remington 240 JHP 1,785 fps 1" Speer Gold Dot 270 JFP 1,516 fps 1-3/8" Winchester 240 JHP 1,755 fps 1-3/4" Winchester 250 Partition Gold 1,679 fps 3/4"
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jeffh
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,602
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Post by jeffh on May 30, 2021 11:42:27 GMT -5
Thank you for that, Mr. Taffin!
I was going to reply with a question pertaining to your first post, but you'd posted this before I got signed in.
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Post by boxhead on May 30, 2021 22:12:32 GMT -5
No issues with mine with the 250 gr Partition and 270 gr Gold Dot.
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Shakey
.327 Meteor
Central Arkansas
Posts: 543
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Post by Shakey on May 31, 2021 4:03:15 GMT -5
You didn't mention which Ruger .44 Carbine you were interested in. Mr. Taffin has covered the rotary magazine versions very well but the early model autos were tubular magazine fed. Around here, these are the ones most often encountered.
I bought a used one and it did not function well at first. Inspection revealed a small notch had developed in the lifter where the cartridge rims impacted it. After smoothing out the notch it was mostly reliable but never quite 100%.
I always used factory jacketed ammo because I was concerned that cast would clog up the gas system and hunted deer with it off and on for over 20 years with excellent results.
That worn lifter was always in the back of my mind though. I knew it would eventually need to be replaced if I continued using it and they don't make them any more. I was also tired of searching for far-flung brass and wanted to use some cast handloads. So, it wound up being trading off.
I wouldn't mind having another tube-fed but only if it was "low mileage" . Never had any experience with the rotary magazine model but it sounds like a better option.
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Post by taffin on May 31, 2021 8:51:36 GMT -5
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Post by taffin on May 31, 2021 8:53:07 GMT -5
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Post by seventy7rs on Jun 1, 2021 6:19:40 GMT -5
I have owned both versions of the Ruger semi auto 44. The original works fine provided it is not worn and has good springs. Finding parts is near impossible. Factory triggers are the biggest detriment to accuracy and they are almost impossible to make any improvement on because of the design. The newer ones have terrific triggers right out of the box and are easier to improve. I would not recommend buying the older version anymore. Spend the money on the 99/44 and you won’t regret it.
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Post by x101airborne on Jun 1, 2021 10:28:31 GMT -5
I have an original tube feed Deerstalker and every year I cut a new buffer pad out of saddle leather to prevent cracking the action / stock. It has an El Paso Weaver with German post reticle mounted up side down. This has worked great for me for several years. When a black hog comes out past legal shooting time for Whitetails just drop that heavy post till you cant see the tip of the thick part and pull the trigger. My eyes were losing that dark post in low light against dark targets / dirt using it right side up. For longer shots I have that thin wire to use so I am not covering an entire coyote at 200 yards guessing at my holdover.
I have since moved on to a Marlin lever action for heavy 44 Mag loads and hardly use the Deerstalker anymore. Even with the Microgroove barrel it shoots cast very well.
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Post by nhithaca on Jun 1, 2021 11:55:37 GMT -5
My old boss had an original 44 from the mid '60s that I did shoot w/ vintage Remington 240 grain soft points. No issues, but as noted the trigger is not great. Unfortunately his idiot son used it as a bat to finish off a wood chuck because he ran out of bullets! Broke the stock all to pieces and as noted above, parts are nonexistent. Did find him a rough custom stock, but never saw the finished item as I left the company. I later bought two of these guns @ local gun shows, one of which is a three digit serial number and without the cartridge release for the mag and the other is the version with the Williams peep site from the factory. Never shot either gun.
To add, I read somewhere that Ruger bought barrels from Marlin for these guns (in the beginning) and it does appear that the rifling is a type of Micro-Groove in both the guns I have. Just can't remember where I saw this stated or if it is indeed true.
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Post by Sawfish on Jun 1, 2021 18:36:52 GMT -5
I have owned three of these little jewels. A standard and an RS model that I bought new, and one standard that I bought used. All were completely reliable. When I lived in Louisiana, they were the perfect tool for Whitetails in the swamps. I had three Uncles and two cousins that used the little carbines to collect their venison every year. Being banged around in jeeps and on horseback the little guns lived a rugged life, but I never heard about any malfunctions. Half of our party prefered Winchester and half prefered Remington Jacketed Soft Points. All worked well. I tried some cast bullets to see if they would work, and they did. Using a 245 grain plain base bullet over Alcan AL-8 made an accurate well functioning load. Quit before I gunked up the works, but it did work.
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Post by blacktailslayer on Jun 4, 2021 14:23:43 GMT -5
I have a tube fed model that was made in their last year of production and have had feed and extraction issues from day one. Some days is does OK and other days it will not feed anything at all. I have cleaned the gas system a few different times even though it wasn't that dirty and no improvement. Shot mostly factory jacketed loads in it. An older gent some years ago said that he had the same issue with his and he loaded his ammo with a 300 gr jacketed bullet a little on the "hot" side and his would function fine. I tried that but it didn't help. The danged thing is accurate as ever with just about any load that I have every ran through it so that is a plus and is why after owning it for nearly 30 years I haven't sold it yet. I will have to look at the shell lifter to see if it has a groove in it, that may be the issue of it not feeding well.
Don D.
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