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Post by giller56 on Apr 10, 2021 19:47:02 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I have a custom 44 special five and a half inch bisley with a pacnor barrel from David Clements. It shoots 7.5 grains of unique with a 250 lead head bullet accurate, however I get leading in the first part of the barrel, so Mr Clements said to try 4227 at 16 grains. The leading went away but not near as accurate. He said the gun will not leave the shop unless the dimensions are perfect, so that is out of the equation. So does anyone have any suggestions, I would sure like to use the 7.5 grains of unique with a 250 grain bullet. He told me some guns dont like unique but I sure hope this isnt one of them. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for any feedback
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Post by Encore64 on Apr 10, 2021 19:51:28 GMT -5
Easiest solution is to try powder coated cast bullets.
Dave and I have never discussed the Unique Powder. I use Unique and 2400 in my various 44 Special revolvers and no issue.
If gun dimensions are correct, I'd check bullets next.
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Post by wheelguns on Apr 10, 2021 20:12:27 GMT -5
Do you get lead on the forcing cone?
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Post by leftysixgun on Apr 10, 2021 20:14:22 GMT -5
Try Power Pistol, it burns similar to Unique and I personally prefer it over Unique. Then again, if the leading isnt affecting accuracy with your Unique load, then shoot whats accurate. I have a couple guns that lead the barrel alittle but they are still accurate......I dont worry about them and shoot them regularly and at good distance.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Apr 10, 2021 20:58:02 GMT -5
Giller, first off Welcome. Second, is this gun a shoot very little gun or a shoot a lot gun?? If it’s a shoot a little one, then just clean it when accuracy diminishes and continue on. If it’s a gun that gets shot a lot, then check bullets, or try powder coated ones. I’ve got a 44mag that pushes soft 300gr. bullets a bit faster than what they are designed for 1150-1200 FPS, they were designed for 800-900 but they perform on game similar to a Nosler partition. So I use them and just know that I can shoot 2 cylinders worth and then I need to clean the barrel well or accuracy drops off.
Trapr
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Post by giller56 on Apr 10, 2021 22:10:23 GMT -5
Wow is it nice to have a place to ask these kinds of questions. Yes there is lead in the forcing cone, I will be shooting it quite often I am probably am being to picky. The bullets are sized .430 per Daves instructions. It wont shoot cast performance bullets, leads terribly with those even with a gas check. I have some Matts bullets coming that are bhn 11 Dave said to try. I dont have the tools to measure cylinder throats and all that but if someone like Dave says it doesnt leave the shop unless everything is as it should be I will just assume its not the gun. I have alot to learn about lead bullets. Thank you guys very much
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Post by wheelguns on Apr 10, 2021 22:18:22 GMT -5
Lead in the forcing cone usually indicates that your bullets are too small. I have gotten commercial bullets that ran smaller than advertised. Perhaps that is the problem.
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pws
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 51
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Post by pws on Apr 10, 2021 22:37:17 GMT -5
Might also be that the bullets are a little too hard. Both undersize and too hard of an alloy will result in erosion of the edge of the bullet base due to lack of a perfect seal.
Faster powders and hotter primers tend to exacerbate base erosion but sometimes it’s as simple as a slight change in powder charge or alloy.
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pleadthe2nd
.327 Meteor
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Post by pleadthe2nd on Apr 11, 2021 7:30:50 GMT -5
Try tumble lubing with Lee liquid alox, I tumble lube all my cast bullets, no leading, maybe a few flakes here and there, but never stuck in the barrel.
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Post by bigmuddy on Apr 11, 2021 9:30:38 GMT -5
Might also be that the bullets are a little too hard. Both undersize and too hard of an alloy will result in erosion of the edge of the bullet base due to lack of a perfect seal. Faster powders and hotter primers tend to exacerbate base erosion but sometimes it’s as simple as a slight change in powder charge or alloy. ^^^this^^^^ Would be my guess. I had a similar problem with my own cast 250K bullets. My casting “mentor” water quenches everything so I did too. After reading articles by Glen Fryxel I saw that bullets cast very hard, even sized correctly, can cause leading in the mid-velocity ranges. I cast a batch of bullets and let them air cool. My 44 specials all remain lead free now. I’d be surprised if the bullets you have coming from Matt’s didn’t work better for you. Good luck! Dan
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Post by bigbrowndog on Apr 11, 2021 9:34:15 GMT -5
BTW, that 300gr. bullet that gives partition like expansion, is from Matt’s, it’s his 300HP. Vey good accuracy.
Trapr
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Post by contender on Apr 11, 2021 10:02:31 GMT -5
gillar56,, Welcome! You are opening a potentially long discussion. Shooting cast lead bullets is something that can be easy or frustrating. It's a learning curve. Luckily, you have a custom gun, where the maker knows the dimensions & such, and can offer advice. Otherwise,, you'd need to study "slugging" your bore, measuring your throats, & working on the formula for matching the alloy of the bullets with the measurements.
Many years ago,, when I first started fooling with getting serious about casting my own bullets,, and such,, boy did I get an education. I thought it was "easy" and everything worked in all guns, at whatever velocities. I got leading in some & not in others. I had a mis-mash of mixed metals for an alloy, and didn't do it right. There wasn't this thing called the "internet" nor were there Forums or other places to learn what I was doing wrong. The books I got to study,,, well, sometime left me confused, and having questions. And, I didn't have any mentors either.
By far,,, if you aren't going to cast your own, I'd follow David's advice on the size (.430) and shop around for different bullets. Next,, as mentioned above,, I'd SERIOUSLY look at using the powder coated types of cast bullets. Especially if your desires are to use Unique, & the 250 grn types that are already accurate. if that doesn't work, then as mentioned above, going up in size by .001 or maybe down in size by .001, may also work.
Lastly, if you really want to study a LOT about cast bullets,, check out the Forum; castboolits and you'll be able to learn a LOT (most likely more than you'll want) about them.
Many, many of us here cast our own, or use a form of cast bullet for most of our handgunning. We will usually have to slug the bore, and measure the throats of the chambers to get an idea as to where to start our bullet selection. David has already said to try .430,, so I'd start there, with different manufacturers, AND powder coated ones. It might be the shortcut you seek.
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Post by oddshooter on Apr 11, 2021 10:45:09 GMT -5
Lots of great advice above. I would ask Mr. Clements what the specific dimensions were. I like to start by knowing all the numbers that can be measured. It eliminates weeks or months of chasing a ghost. I even enter the B/C gap and trigger weight in my spread sheet. I have my own pin gauges so I can measure the cylinders myself. If none are available, I do a "drop test" at least. Slugging the bore is just one of those things I like to do with a new sixgun as well. I use a micrometer on every bullet order I receive. I am no longer shocked when they are undersized or oversized, no matter who made it. Please check back in here as you progress. We all eventually face the leading question for ourselves and it can be a frustrating quest to find answers. That castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php link recommendation will take you to an enormous amount of info on leading. Maybe too much? Those guys are intense with their hobby. Prescut
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Post by sixshot on Apr 11, 2021 12:54:52 GMT -5
Your softer bullets with 7.5 grs of Unique were shooting just fine, but a bit of leading. Your hard CP bullets wouldn't shoot at all because they were too hard, especially with that GC, so you've about figured out your problem. Gas cutting. You have some BHN 11 bullets coming & they most likely will solve your problem if sized .430". As mentioned, going to powder coating will solved the problem if you decide to use them. Cast Performance makes a great bullet but they are heat treated & very hard so they aren't plinkers, they need velocity to make they shine, shooting them slow can cause leading & is expensive. No need for a GC on a plinking bullet.
Dick
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Post by ddixie884 on Apr 11, 2021 15:44:33 GMT -5
You might also try shooting a hundred or so jacketed through your bore to take the machined edge off your bore and forcing cone. Start with a clean bore and clean after each cylinder full. Brian Pearce does this to new revolvers before loading with cast...........
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