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Post by Lee Martin on Apr 5, 2021 13:18:49 GMT -5
Smith & Wesson Model 640, stainless steel J-frame Centennial .357 Mag based on the old 5-shot Chief Special and Centennial of .38 Special fame. A bread & butter belly gun hopped up for magnums. Yet there are .38 Special loads which may carry a bite louder than its bark. M-640 with Uncle Mike birdhead Combat Grip, Federal .38 Special 148 Wadcutter Hollow Base. Two bullets recovered from water jugs.  Established as a top target load, Federal #38A .38 Special lead 148 grain Wadcutter Hollow Base makes an excellent small game load. Also has a fair reputation for defense. First shot into water jugs penetrated 23"; a second shot on fresh water jugs stopped after 21-inches. Penetration considerably exceeds some self-defense parameters. Very slight flare at shoulder.  Federal made a 180 grain JHP for the .357 Maximum, soon loading it in the .357 Mag as #357G. As bullet from 2-1/8" barrel with 1:18-3/4" twist begins to expand, a 16-grain ring of lead shears at the mouth of the jacket. Recovered bullet weight: 164-grains. Expansion of flared bullet: .397" x .390". Soon after Federal introduced this load, David lunshot two Texas whitetails----one shot apiece----stainless 6" Colt Python with Elliason rear, patridge front sights. Bullets not recovered. The first deer stood without running; finally it fell over. The other buck ran a short distance, falling before it reached mesquite trees. Neither bullet from lung shot deer was recovered.  Winchester .38 Special 158 swaged lead SWC (semi wadutter) replaced the old police 158 Lead Round Nose in some police circles. From 2-1/8" S&W, poked through 6 1-gallon plastic jugs for 31.5" penetration.  While not all Federal Hydra-Shok bullets expand as designed, the .38 Spl 129 grain JHP enjoys a good reputation from the field. Bullet shed just 2-grains with picture-book expansion----.591" x .571”----with 13" penetration.  Federal .357 Mag Hydra-Shok 158 JHP from M-640 2-1/8". Forward part of jacket broke off at cannelure.  A preferred carry load in 2-1/8" M-640, CCI .357 Mag 140 JHP, exhibits exceptional penetration of 23" as weight drops from 140 to 99-grains.  Penetrating 9" water, Federal .357 110 JHP dropped half its weight from Ruger 4-5/8" barrel, to 55-grains, jacket & core intact.  Concave base of Federal .357 110 JHP in effect lengthens "wheelbase" of this short bullet.  Federal 357B 125 JHP from 4" barrel of S&W Model 19. Pentration 15”, expanding nearly 1/2-inch. This M-19 was rebuilt by S&W's great Al Plaas. Barrel set back to eliminate firing cone erosion. Cylinder and various lockwork replaced. Tight, smooth; 4-inch accuracy at the length of a football field.  -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by x101airborne on Apr 5, 2021 13:25:15 GMT -5
VERY nice Lee!!
I would have thought for sure those soft swaged semi wadcutters would have expanded more.
Again, thanks very much for the information on your tests!
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 5, 2021 14:01:36 GMT -5
VERY nice Lee!! I would have thought for sure those soft swaged semi wadcutters would have expanded more. Again, thanks very much for the information on your tests! ***** Trey.... the DB Volume photo essay series falls from my hand. Beaucoup thanks to Lee Martin for posting. Without Lee’s labor, I’d just have to shoot holes in my own pictures. And thanks for your input, David Bradshaw |
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Post by Lee Martin on Apr 5, 2021 15:04:26 GMT -5
David - those Model 60 .357's (+ 640s) are fine shooting little Smiths. I've been carrying one in an ankle rig since 1996:  I load a 158 gr Remington HP with HS6 at around 1,000 fps. Superbly accurate revolver for its size. This photo essay is enlightening. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 5, 2021 18:30:59 GMT -5
Lee.... from my experience, the J-frame stands in a league of its own. No other bellygun stands close to the S&W J-frame for stroking double action hits on a man silhouette @ 100 yards. No other bellygun have I trusted to thrust into the hands of another shooter and command hits @ 100 yards----with results. The J-frame is not a tactical weapon, yet confidently commands the space around it.
David Bradshaw
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Post by RDW on Apr 5, 2021 19:10:38 GMT -5
David - those Model 60 .357's (+ 640s) are fine shooting little Smiths. I've been carrying one in an ankle rig since 1996: I load a 158 gr Remington HP with HS6 at around 1,000 fps. Superbly accurate revolver for its size. This photo essay is enlightening. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" Guys i am so happy to here that coming from some real shooters! I cant tell you how many times my friends have poked fun at my Model 60 that i have carried in a pocket or boot rig since about the late 80s now. Or at least till i popped a hole in something out at a distance that would surprise them or has forced a few of them to shut the hell up. Hahaha. She's been a real faithful and dependable old friend. Always a little dirty, mainly pocket lint but always a shooter. Loves low speed 148gr Hollow basers and hot ass 110 HPs. Very packable.  |
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 6, 2021 8:39:56 GMT -5
David - those Model 60 .357's (+ 640s) are fine shooting little Smiths. I've been carrying one in an ankle rig since 1996: I load a 158 gr Remington HP with HS6 at around 1,000 fps. Superbly accurate revolver for its size. This photo essay is enlightening. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" Guys i am so happy to here that coming from some real shooters! I cant tell you how many times my friends have poked fun at my Model 60 that i have carried in a pocket or boot rig since about the late 80s now. Or at least till i popped a hole in something out at a distance that would surprise them or has forced a few of them to shut the hell up. Hahaha. She's been a real faithful and dependable old friend. Always a little dirty, mainly pocket lint but always a shooter. Loves low speed 148gr Hollow basers and hot ass 110 HPs. Very packable. ***** Ronnie.... another Ron packed in his pocket a Chief’s Special. Remember dinner one evening with Ron Power and his wife. As I recall, there was less lint on his belly gun than I see on yours. Not really a criticism. Because the guns don’t care; all they do is work. David Bradshaw |
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lobo
.327 Meteor
Location: SE Mississippi
Posts: 536
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Post by lobo on May 9, 2021 17:57:32 GMT -5
I carry a S&W m442 when I'm at home. So lightweight one can forget it's there. I also have a m640, but it feels "heavy" compared to the m442.
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Post by bradshaw on May 9, 2021 20:29:05 GMT -5
I carry a S&W m442 when I'm at home. So lightweight one can forget it's there. I also have a m640, but it feels "heavy" compared to the m442. ***** lobo.... having put many more miles on the .38 Special Model 442 Centennial Airweight with aluminum frame with Uncle Mike Boot Grip, than the .357 Mag stainless M-640 Centennial with Uncle Mike Combat bird head grip, I endorse the Airweight for street, or anytime. And I’ve talked more non-gun people into purchasing a blue or stainless Airweight than any other belly gun. Both cover barn chores when loaded with a good .38 Special of lead persuasion. Limited to a careful earhole shot on pig or cow. Except to cheat Death, the J-frame is not a tactical instrument. David Bradshaw |
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Post by flyingzebra on May 9, 2021 21:28:10 GMT -5
Years ago a neighbor asked about something that they could have on them always, that would be constantly reliable, and could handle the chore list around her horse ranch.
I ended up giving her my daily carry 442 and a supply of ammunition including shot ammunition for snake and packrat duty.
It's been in service since. I occasionally take it in for a cleaning for her, but it has never let her down.
I always have my eye out for a replacement for myself, but haven't found anything yet.
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Post by bradshaw on May 10, 2021 9:03:04 GMT -5
The S&W Chief’s Special, illustrated in photos by Lee and Ronnie, had a shorter, rounder trigger guard in its original form. Ronnie might have trouble wiggling his finger into that one. I lopped off the spur on a couple of Model 36’s, following a common practice dating way back. Factory walnut scales on the original round butt (Ronnie’s J-frame), or faux ivory (Lee’s J-frame), allow the shooter to pivot the gun on his trigger finger to muzzle up, exposing the butt to protrude below the heel of his hand, making the gun a potent short-stroke club to an assailant’s knowledge box. Because the trigger finger squeezing bottom strap & cylinder, it doesn’t leverage the trigger. Not to be confused with Hollywood star sneaking into a dark room.
David Bradshaw
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Post by bradshaw on May 12, 2021 7:59:22 GMT -5
Was told at Smith & Wesson, long decades ago, that the aluminum J-frame .38 Special was a carry-often, shoot-seldom, gun. “100 to 200 rounds,” the man said. "200 rounds and it’s done.” When +P came along, the advice was, “Not for the aluminum J-frame.”
Times change. As “enhancements” go, the aluminum Chief’s Special and its Bodyguard and Centennial siblings must have grown a bit of metallugical muscle. The aluminum & stainless M-642 Centennial and aluminum & carbon steel M-442 take +P, although I’ve sent relatively few +P downrange from either. My data may be obsolete, but between Oehler Model 33 chronograph and automobile bodies, I detected no meaningful difference between standard and +P from the 2-inch barrels.
David Bradshaw
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jwp475
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,084
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Post by jwp475 on May 12, 2021 10:00:29 GMT -5
I have a M-36 & a M-60 both in 38 Spcl. They are both accurate, with total concentration. The recoil can be a bit sporty with the small grips and +P+ ammo
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Post by dougader on May 12, 2021 10:44:04 GMT -5
My ex carried a stainless 640 in 38 Spl. I'll say it kicked like a lil' mule with 158 grain +P LSWC-HP's! Can't imagine shooting that ammo in an aluminum alloy gun.
My j frame is a 431PD, in 32 HRM. Never had factory loads for it. 100 gr XTP/11.6 grains W296. It serves as backup to, or in conjunction with, a Glock 43 9mm. Both pocket carried. Something comforting about carrying a semi-auto AND a revolver.
I bought 2 model 64 38 Spl revolvers that were police over-runs or something. Came NEW with bobbed hammer, DA Only, round butt, 2" bbl and Pachmayr grips. Sweet 6 shooter that carried some stout loads. I think they were $165 out the door. Another ex took those for herself and her Dad. As far as I know, they both still carry those to this day.
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Post by bradshaw on May 13, 2021 6:34:00 GMT -5
My ex carried a stainless 640 in 38 Spl. I'll say it kicked like a lil' mule with 158 grain +P LSWC-HP's! Can't imagine shooting that ammo in an aluminum alloy gun. My j frame is a 431PD, in 32 HRM. Never had factory loads for it. 100 gr XTP/11.6 grains W296. It serves as backup to, or in conjunction with, a Glock 43 9mm. Both pocket carried. Something comforting about carrying a semi-auto AND a revolver. I bought 2 model 64 38 Spl revolvers that were police over-runs or something. Came NEW with bobbed hammer, DA Only, round butt, 2" bbl and Pachmayr grips. Sweet 6 shooter that carried some stout loads. I think they were $165 out the door. Another ex took those for herself and her Dad. As far as I know, they both still carry those to this day. ***** Note penetration from a pair of factory.38 Special factory lead bullet loads* Federal #38A 148 WC Hollow Base, 23 and 21-inches through 6”x6" 1-gallon water jugs. * Winchester 158 SWC, 31-1/2” through 6”x6” 1-gallon water jugs. While these loads lack excitement of a correct-for-cartridge hollow point, each has a working MEPLAT, and mate well to an Airweight belly gun. David Bradshaw |
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