Mr. Bradshaw Question

[webber]

Sir,

With this subject of accuracy with a handgun help me on this.
What is the modus operandi you would use if you were going to shoot your 44 Mag etc. trying to get an exemplar group offhand at 100 yards, standing and the type target you would use?
Please go into detail if you would on your technique.

Thanks

[bradshaw]

Jan 3, 2021 19:51:02 GMT -5 webber said:

Sir,

With this subject of accuracy with a handgun help me on this.
What is the modus operandi you would use if you were going to shoot your 44 Mag etc. trying to get an exemplar group offhand at 100 yards, standing and the type target you would use?
Please go into detail if you would on your technique.

Thanks

*****

Oh boy. The simple answer, to shoot the best offhand group @ 100 yards, close to perfectly:

1) Revolver
A fine revolver.

2) Bullet & load
* Bullet of superior dynamic balance----example: Sierra 240 JHC.
* Excellent load----example: 24 grains 296/H110; or, 21/2400; or, 23.5/4227.

3) Conditions
No wind; bright diffuse light. All the stuff that’s not a gimme when we shoot outdoors. Sights protected from direct sunlight. Excellent target visibility.
A good .44 Mag is very consistent in wind. Mindful, wind always bends a bullet. The more time a bullet spends between muzzle and target, the farther wind pushes it. A bullet of extreme stability, with good weight, registers less lateral dispersion than a light bullet, probably because the lighter bullet----even going faster----is more sensitive to undetected wind fluctuations. Bullet weight is less a factor in accuracy than bullet balance.

4) Target
IHMSA pig or cardboard square 15” to 18” wide----wider than the front sight. Am 1/8-inch blade (.125”) covers roughly 12-inches at the length of a football field. Actual subtension depends on individual eye relief (distance from eye to front sight), which is determined by the shooter’s stance, arm length, and barrel length.

5) Offhand position
Weight even on both feet. Weight of revolver even in both hands.
* Isosceles----equalateral triangle, arms straight but not hyperextended. Chest roughly perpendicular to target. Hand position personal but PROVEN. Isosceles provides longest eye relief, which makes for more precise sight alignment. I allow for slight bend in elbows, mandatory for heavy recoil.
* Weaver----a.k.a. boxer stance. Support side of body angles toward target. Overall position and angle variable by anatomy. Weight even on both feet; except on moving target, which shifts weight forward. Wind affects standing more than any other position; thus;

* Breathing, sighting, squeeze with follow through, are covered elsewhere. However, it bears repeating, TRIGGER SQUEEZE in offhand is the same as from a rest. The only difference, in offhand the gun never stops moving.

6) Sighting----square blade, square notch
Focus is done on the PLANE----top edge----of the front sight. Unless it is necessary to hike the front sight above the plane of the rear sight, front & rear sight form a single plane. The eye balances light to either side of the blade.
To use silhouette competition as an example, the top my front sight touches meat----overlaps the belly line barely at all. The reason is country simple: to hold any light between sight and target invite optical illusion to control your POI (Point of Impact). The practice has validity for bullseye, where bull and background are on the same 2-dimensional surface. In silhouette the background can be anywhere behind the target, but it never shares the same plane. Bright sun exaggerates the air gap between sight and belly of animal----the shooter creeps high and shoots high. In dim light, the shooter lowers the sight to see light between sight and belly, causing the shot to strike low.

I generally hold on the pig where the front leg joins the body. The reason to not hold center is to expose as much target as possible. Fatigue is a factor during long strings of fire, which shortens the shooter's SPAN of FOCUS. I shoot all silhouettes----chickens, pigs, turkeys, rams, with the same “just touch meat” hold. In the field I want my bullet on the sight and hold ELEVATION CENTER. If distance calls for more blade I hike it. Late shooting partner Ed Verge made zany hits at all sorts of distances by elevating his sight picture! Since I watched this insanity in action too many times to remember, all I can do is respect it. Because I sure can’t duplicate it. When not doing farm chores as a boy, Ed cast meatball bullets for his Springfield Trapdoor .45-70 and taught himself trajectory.... This is called owning your bullet.

Back in the 1970’s a doctrine spread like hot peanut butter that you’ve got to follow your sights on recoil; that’s how you get on target for faster repeat shots. Whoever wrote that may have shot .22 Shorts in Olympic Rapid Fire; they were not shooting .357 or .44 Mag. No, do it like a sharpshooter and your eye focuses on the target as the muzzle comes down. It is better to respect than deny physics.
David Bradshaw

[flyingzebra]

Good stuff here

[webber]

It is good information that I am saving to refer back to occasionally.
Another question for Mr. Bradshaw. While I know you are not a proponent of bullseyes on paper targets, do you find a particular color of paper to work better overall than another?
I usually use white but at times it seems to have a "flare" to it at times.
I can shoot where the sights are shaded all the time if I choose but the "flare" seems to cause funny things to happen at times as the sun changes position and the "flare" changes intensity of the white target.
So, do you have a preference of color and texture of target?
Also do you believe firesrms shooter sometimes suffer from the malady of "Target Panic", a malady that Archers suffer from at times?

Thank you for your time.

[bradshaw]

Jan 4, 2021 4:50:48 GMT -5 webber said:

It is good information that I am saving to refer back to occasionally.
Another question for Mr. Bradshaw. While I know you are not a proponent of bullseyes on paper targets, do you find a particular color of paper to work better overall than another?
I usually use white but at times it seems to have a "flare" to it at times.
I can shoot where the sights are shaded all the time if I choose but the "flare" seems to cause funny things to happen at times as the sun changes position and the "flare" changes intensity of the white target.
So, do you have a preference of color and texture of target?
Also do you believe firesrms shooter sometimes suffer from the malady of "Target Panic", a malady that Archers suffer from at times?

Thank you for your time.

*****

Webber.... Bullseye was a specific game, one-hand shooting, 50-feet indoors, 25 & 50 yards outdoors. Most often conducted under covered firing line. Black bullseye & scoring rings proportioned to distance. Today I believe optics are allowed. Does the game remain locked in one hand? Target visibility is vastly more predictable than in silhouette, where individual targets may individual targets may reflect light differently, with varying visibility. Snd not a single silhouette is in the same focal plane as its background, ever, a visual accentuated by distance.

I don’t worry about target color as long as I can see it. As you note, white can flare in bright sun, the effect amplified by distance. Brown cardboard is readily available, occupies middle range in VALUE (value is the color scale seen in white & black), which neutrality provides a consistent ground for iron sights. Cardboard is stiff, holds up well, staples easily, and provides just enough depth to check for yaw. Easy to write on, patch and re-use.

Never heard of "target panic.”
David Bradshaw

[webber]

"TARGET PANIC" as described on an archery website.
I guess it is just a kind way of saying one is screwing up.
"Target panic is a psychological condition affecting an archer’s ability to shoot. Instead of shooting confidently, archers lose their composure at the last moment. Target panic can cause archers to shoot arrows without aiming, be unable to come to full draw, not follow through their shot, and have a difficult time holding steady. It can kick in when the archer begins anticipating the shot and become an unwanted habit of bad form. Target panic for archers is a similar experience to flinching before shooting a firearm".

[RDW]

And a BUTTLOAD of practice. Hahahaha
Hot Lead and Happy Trails 

[squigz]

Jan 4, 2021 8:21:43 GMT -5 webber said:

"TARGET PANIC" as described on an archery website.
I guess it is just a kind way of saying one is screwing up.
"Target panic is a psychological condition affecting an archer’s ability to shoot. Instead of shooting confidently, archers lose their composure at the last moment. Target panic can cause archers to shoot arrows without aiming, be unable to come to full draw, not follow through their shot, and have a difficult time holding steady. It can kick in when the archer begins anticipating the shot and become an unwanted habit of bad form. Target panic for archers is a similar experience to flinching before shooting a firearm".

I can comment on the target panic from an archer standpoint since I've been in competition for quite a few years now.

At a very basic and high level target panic is associated to making the shot "happen" rather than letting the shot "surprise" you on a natural level from the squeeze of a trigger. When aiming, we're hyper focused on the target, when we're on the bullseye our minds tend to go to "shoot shoot shoot"; that is target panic because instead of focusing on slowly squeezing and releasing the shot, we rush it and cause a flinch or something of the like to make the shot happen forcefully.

Naturally, without target panic, we should be "floating" on the target and flowing through with our squeeze and follow through on the shot rather than trying to make the shot happen when the sights are on the bullseye.

It's hard to get over target panic, I had to get over a mild stint of it and sometimes it creeps back up. My biggest suggestion to remove your self and get over target panic is to blank bail; this is shooting a target with no actual target or bullseye onto a blank sheet/target bail. Now, this isn't exactly great when we're talking about firearms, because unlike a bow, we can't just go and pull the bullet out immediately and shoot it again like we can with an arrow. But it can be done with dry frying and just squeezing the trigger and following through with that squeeze.

[bigmuddy]

Like squigz I too have dealt with target panic with a bow. It was not easy to get over and yes it “creeps” back now and again. I used the blank bale method, as well as sessions drawing the bow, getting on target, and not firing just letting it down. Wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.

I have been told that it is basically a fear of missing. Makes sense.

I’ve never experienced it with a handgun, nor can I say I’ve ever witnessed anyone else with it per se. I suppose it is possible.

Dan

[bradshaw]

Jan 4, 2021 11:00:08 GMT -5 squigz said:

Jan 4, 2021 8:21:43 GMT -5 webber said:

"TARGET PANIC" as described on an archery website.
I guess it is just a kind way of saying one is screwing up.
"Target panic is a psychological condition affecting an archer’s ability to shoot. Instead of shooting confidently, archers lose their composure at the last moment. Target panic can cause archers to shoot arrows without aiming, be unable to come to full draw, not follow through their shot, and have a difficult time holding steady. It can kick in when the archer begins anticipating the shot and become an unwanted habit of bad form. Target panic for archers is a similar experience to flinching before shooting a firearm".

I can comment on the target panic from an archer standpoint since I've been in competition for quite a few years now.

At a very basic and high level target panic is associated to making the shot "happen" rather than letting the shot "surprise" you on a natural level from the squeeze of a trigger. When aiming, we're hyper focused on the target, when we're on the bullseye our minds tend to go to "shoot shoot shoot"; that is target panic because instead of focusing on slowly squeezing and releasing the shot, we rush it and cause a flinch or something of the like to make the shot happen forcefully.

Naturally, without target panic, we should be "floating" on the target and flowing through with our squeeze and follow through on the shot rather than trying to make the shot happen when the sights are on the bullseye.

It's hard to get over target panic, I had to get over a mild stint of it and sometimes it creeps back up. My biggest suggestion to remove your self and get over target panic is to blank bail; this is shooting a target with no actual target or bullseye onto a blank sheet/target bail. Now, this isn't exactly great when we're talking about firearms, because unlike a bow, we can't just go and pull the bullet out immediately and shoot it again like we can with an arrow. But it can be done with dry frying and just squeezing the trigger and following through with that squeeze.

*****

webber and squigz..... if I read this right, target panic amounts to wanting to get the shot over with. Sounds to me like feeling lucky. Marksmansip is simple minded and does not tolerate distraction. No dreaming of the future or romancing the past on the trigger. Marksmanship is HERE & NOW. Many yrears ago, I was sixteen, a young man said he was going to "beat me" in the Navy Cup. The Navy Cup is a prestigious match at the High Power Rifle Championships held at Camp Perry. OFFHAND, 20 shots, 200 yards. Of course, the gentleman’s intent was to psych me, sew doubt. Years later I would hear the same boast in handgun silhouette. As it turns out, our relay was shot in a light rain punctuated by an afternoon breeze off Lake Erie. We had the National Match M1 Garand, to this day a wonderful offhand rifle, 9 to 10 pounds depending on the density of the walnut, excellent forward weight, thanks to the gas cylinder, operating rod, upper & forward handhguards. With the best iron sights ever put on a rifle. My own team had serious lead slingers on it, including Robert “Doc” Carroll, who shot a spectaclelar 99x100 with his Garand in the 1,000 yard Leech Cup.

As I stepped to the line, I said to myself, “Breathe... squeeze.” As for the blade front sight against a light rain, recoil shakes off rain like a dog. I used the rain to help gauge wind, the lee of the wind to squeeze. The man out to beat me had a rough day. I medalled. That little seance articulated for this shooter the danger distraction poses to marksmanship. It helped articulate the power of FRESH OXYGEN to calm nerves, clear the eyes, sweep away fear.
David Bradshaw

[pws]

I’ve understood “target panic” as trying to snatch the shot at an instant when things appear right instead of focusing on the whole process. Release triggers were devised as a cure for this tendency.

[bradshaw]

"I’ve understood 'target panic'.... trying to snatch the shot at an instant when things appear right....”

To squeeze as you come onto the target runs the risk of depending on perfection. Perfect timing. Perfect point in one’s natural oscillation. Heard of rifle silhouettes doing it this way. To become a technique would require development----beaucoup practice with a consistent result. I tried it years ago but not for long. Found the idea looks better than the result. Did not devote much time to it. For offhand on the turkey @ 385 meters, or ram @ 500m, seems a 2-to-6 ounce trigger necessary to not end up behind your squeeze. Cannot imagine hunting that way.

"Release triggers were devised as a cure....”

I’ve heard of shotgunners using a release trigger. Wouldn’t even want to dispatch a cow beside a barn this way. And do not picture it for moving targets with handgun or rifle.
David Bradshaw