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Post by Gunny268 on Dec 23, 2020 1:40:48 GMT -5
Thunderjet, I don't believe the dual cylinder Blackhawks that I've been shooting for the past 20 years were "gimmicks". I bought them when I was in the military which, depending on the unit I was in, gave me access to 9mm or 45 ACP ammo aplenty. And, for both the 357 and 45 Colt, I would hand-load my precious brass. So, free 9mm or 45 ACP military ammo (and my reloads of spent brass) for practice and plinking. With hand-loaded 357 and 45 Colt for hunting or field carry in the bush in my off time. Somewhat practical uses for either caliber with a cartridge choice dependent on the environment to be utilized. Round counts for the "accessory" semi-auto cartridge cylinders is probably twice that for each pistols full caliber cylinders. When changing cylinders, you are changing the cartridge. A sight adjust is usually required. (Special Note - shooting 9mm Ball ammo in a 357 Pistol will never be the most accurate of combos.)
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jeffh
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Post by jeffh on Dec 26, 2020 15:15:12 GMT -5
I hate the word "gimmick." Too often it's just used to bash something the user doesn't want or didn't think of. Dual or Multiple Cylinders are not a gimmick, they're a feature. While some sight adjustment is usually required, the same is true when switching ammo for one cylinder guns. Right now, it can be a great thing to have considering the ammo and primer shortage. As much as I personally like the 44 Special, I have not often recommended it to others. That one, you've got to find and appreciate for yourself.
I do, however recommend the mid-sized frame Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt/45 ACP.
I've never owned one, but the point about ammo/primer shortages is not lost on me. I'd collect all the small primer-pocket 45ACP brass others despise and know that I could conserve large pistol primers if I had to, or small if I had to, and there ain't no flies on the 45 - either of 'em.
I think dual-cylinder guns are particularly useful in that respect, and having the ACP cylinder as a backup/option would be fine my me whether I ever used it or not. The added sense of "component security" is appealing.
If I ever get back into a Dr. office (they are refusing to see "sick people" so I see little point in going in) and they ask me about stuff which is none of their business, like if I feel insecure about having food, I'll probably tell them "no, but I'm terribly anxious regarding where my next case of small pistol primers is coming from..."
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 26, 2020 15:20:24 GMT -5
I have numerous dual cylinder revolvers. Two that particularly stand out are my Uberti Flattop Target in 44-40/44 Special and a Clements 44-40/44 Magnum. They shoot a wide array of ammo.
I do agree on large and small primers. Ditto on available powders. Even 454 Casull brass could be trimmed back for small primer 45 Colt brass.
To the enthusiast, things just look different. There are no simple right or wrong in this.
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hombre
.30 Stingray
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Post by hombre on Dec 27, 2020 17:45:54 GMT -5
I have a second generation Colt SAA chambered in 45 Colt with spare 45 ACP cylinder. It has been slicked up by Single Action Service with an action job with replaced springs and a one piece burled walnut handle. I have been burning up 45 ACP hardball in the bored out 357 cylinder done by the talented A. Harton. Shoots like a house on fire, mis the days when you could pick up decent priced cases of ammo.
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Post by maxcactus on Dec 27, 2020 19:05:53 GMT -5
Are dual/multiple cylinder revolvers a gimmick? I certainly don't think so. I own five Ruger Blackhawks in .45 Colt - three Bisleys and two Flattops. Three of them came with auxiliary .45 ACP cylinders. I own a dozen auto pistols in .45 ACP so the interchangeability made plenty of sense to me, esp when I take my kids shooting. I load my ACP loads with H&G #68 200 gr. SWCs at modest velocity and they make GREAT single action training loads for kids and people who aren't accustomed to significant recoil. Also, I usually have a lot more loaded .45 ACP sitting around than .45 Colt. Conversion cylinders simply extend the versatility of the revolver. Also, in the case of Ruger revolvers, the extra cylinders usually only cost an additional $50 over their single caliber/cylinder counterparts. I know Freedom Arms charges significantly more for auxiliary cylinders, but c'mon man, $50 to have double the versatility is a no-brainer. And you can do a LOT with a good .45 ACP load launched from a revolver. I would say the same applies to aux cylinders on .22 WMR, 9mm and 10mm. For only $50-75, why the heck not? And yes, you'll most likely need to adjust your sights when swapping cylinders.
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ericp
.327 Meteor
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Post by ericp on Dec 27, 2020 19:06:33 GMT -5
My 45 Flattop is my most fired centerfire gun by a wide margin largely because it is a dual cylinder. I use the 45 Colt cylinder with the Rcbs 270 SAA and 2400 for hunting and everyday around the farm work. For practice the 45 ACP cylinder goes in the gun and out comes the coffee cans full of H&G #68 over a couple grains of 231. I have one of the old armory molds that rains bullets and a Dillon Square Deal dedicated to this load. No big deal to turn the elevation screw, just make it habit when you change cylinders and count the clicks.
Eric
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Post by 38 WCF on Dec 28, 2020 9:47:35 GMT -5
I just picked up this Dual cylinder 32-20 & 32 H&R Magnum. Both cylinders put bullets right on top of each other at least at 10 paces. I will have to file down the front sight to raise the point of impact. The 32 magnum seems to be the more potent of the two with my hand loads anyway.
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Post by sorehandluke on Dec 30, 2020 1:33:32 GMT -5
My brother loved his stainless Ruger single six .22/.22wmr revolver, hunted varmints with it for years. He tried out the .22LR cylinder, cleaned it, put it away safe and I never saw it again. He said the .22 magnum was all he needed. I have an 1858 Remington .44 (Uberti) that is a good shooter with its cap and ball cylinder, but I like it better with a Taylor .45LC conversion cylinder since it loads faster, cleans up easier and shoots just as well. I still have plenty of stuff to make the smoke on those days where time is not important. Everyone likes to take a few shots with it.
I have a Bond Deringer and three barrels. So I have three Bond Deringers. .22wmr, .45LC/410, .45acp. Dual cylinders make a lot of sense. They give the gun more applications.
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Post by Ken O'Neill on Dec 30, 2020 8:05:27 GMT -5
I regularly change cylinders of convertibles, when I take a notion. Most of mine are .22 or .45 convertibles. I always keep a sight setting card for each of my guns. My basic zero is always 25 yds. for a revolver, with settings recorded out to 100 yds (200 for silhouette guns). Most convertibles require about 1 elevation click difference when changing cylinders. Rarely, 2 may be required, and even less frequently, a windage click may be required. No problem, follow the info on the card.
I have encountered one favorable exception, and it was probably a fluke: A FA 97, 5-1/2" barrel .45 Convertible would put .45 Colt (250 w/ 17.5 gr 2400), and .45 ACP 230's and 200's into tiny clusters @ 25 yds., each slightly different, but all into the same 2" group. That was good enough for me!
I should say that I have also encountered 1 negative exception, and it may also be a fluke: I have a stainless Ruger 4-5/8" .357 / 9mm. convertible Flat-top which requires 4-5 elevation clicks difference when using the 9 mm cylinder. That cylinder provides the accuracy of a hand-thrown paper weight, so I never use it (didn't really want it anyway).
As a generalization, I have found each cylinder of all my other convertibles to be the approximate accuracy equal of the other cylinder.
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alamogunr
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Post by alamogunr on Jan 4, 2021 9:31:31 GMT -5
Kind of catching up here. I have a FA 83 with extra cylinders in .45 Colt, .45 ACP, and .45 Win Mag. The .45 Colt and .45 ACP get 99% of use. I could use the .454 cylinder but load it down to .45 Colt level but then the two cylinders just mirror each other. Only got the .45 Win Mag because Freedom Arms told me they get a lot of requests for it. If the sons decide to sell, it may be worth it.
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Post by x101airborne on Jan 4, 2021 17:39:39 GMT -5
My Father has a Blackhawk 357 / 9mm. The accuracy of the 9mm was lackluster to say the least. When I started casting I slugged the 9mm cylinder. It would accept a .357 diameter bullet. I tried it just to try it, but fired unsized brass would accept a .357 bullet made of soft lead and the accuracy came to life! One cartridge required a 6 O'clock hold, the other we just held the front sight to a dead on impact. We did not change the sight settings. It is still working today; we just dont fire much 9mm out of it anymore.
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DutchV
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Post by DutchV on Jan 8, 2021 10:13:11 GMT -5
I've got a FA 454 that came with a 45 Colt cylinder. I've never used it. I think the 45 Auto would be perfect as opposed the the 45 Colt. That'd be cheap easy shootin. May I ask why they'd supply a 45 Colt cylinder? Is there a reason not to shoot 45 Colt in a 454? Or is a dedicated cylinder better somehow? I have two convertibles, a Bisley .45 Colt / .45 ACP, as well as a flat top .357 / 9mm. It's good to have options. If you haven't had time to load, and want to do some plinking, the auto ammo can be easier to find.
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bamagreg
.327 Meteor
Woodstock, GA
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Post by bamagreg on Jan 8, 2021 13:29:48 GMT -5
I've got a FA 454 that came with a 45 Colt cylinder. I've never used it. I think the 45 Auto would be perfect as opposed the the 45 Colt. That'd be cheap easy shootin. May I ask why they'd supply a 45 Colt cylinder? Is there a reason not to shoot 45 Colt in a 454? Or is a dedicated cylinder better somehow? I have two convertibles, a Bisley .45 Colt / .45 ACP, as well as a flat top .357 / 9mm. It's good to have options. If you haven't had time to load, and want to do some plinking, the auto ammo can be easier to find. It is perfectly fine to shoot 45 Colt in the 454 cylinder. Freedom Arms reasoning is that their chambers are tight and if you shoot 45 colt in it and follow up with 454 without first cleaning the cylinder the ring of lead/powder residue left where the mouth of the Colt cases reached could cause a tight bullet fit with the longer 454 cartridge and result in high chamber pressures. The same principle is true when shooting 38 special in a 357 mag or 44 special in a 44 mag but the chambers are not usually tight enough for it to be a major issue. Simple fix is to clean the chambers before switching from the shorter cartridge to the longer one.
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edk
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Post by edk on Jan 8, 2021 14:36:14 GMT -5
May I ask why they'd supply a 45 Colt cylinder? Is there a reason not to shoot 45 Colt in a 454? Or is a dedicated cylinder better somehow?
Freedom Arms advises against it. That doesn't mean you cannot do it but I thought I'd post the company's official position on the matter for completeness.
There are forum posts on the internet from Bob Baker that are not hard to find if anyone cared to check.
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jeffh
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Post by jeffh on Jan 8, 2021 15:08:35 GMT -5
I'm not sure what this means to anyone else, but I view this much in the same light (my OWN light, of course) as so-called "switch-barrel" guns.
UNLESS one is traveling, and there a great benefit to shedding a pound or two, or is that concerned about mass or volume, I personally find it an unwelcome inconvenience to switch from, say rimfire to shotgun or shotgun to centerfire, etc. It's not like you're going to perform the "swap" in your tree stand - "OOH! There's a squirrel, Ima-gonna switch my 30-30 barrel to my 22 LR barrel and take that squirrel home!"
THAT is outlandish. Yet, I think a similar concept bounces around in some people's heads when they look at "dual cylinders" or "switch-barrels." "switch-barrel" Contender Carbines. I pervert the whole concept by insisting on having a frame for every barrel but ONE.
The ONE that I would have to to stop and swap is the 357 MAX barrel onto my 357 MAG carbine. The 357 MAG does 99% of what I do, but the MAX provides a big edge for deer season. Deer season (gun season) is ONE WEEK. The rest of the year is comprised of 51 MORE weeks, so I can decommission the MAG long enough for deer season ans swap back for the rest of the year.
For everything else, I like being able to grab it and go - not to have to stop and decide which one I want and if I want to bother switching barrels. I promise, I will decide not to switch barrels and make something ELSE do.
So, to me, the "dual cylinder" or "switch-barrel" concepts really give me VERSATILITY, OPTIONS, a "BACK-UP PLAN."
Again. I like the concept and would NOT regret having the flexibility of OPTIONS even if I never used an extra cylinder or barrel.
By the way. after what, three years? I have still NOT fired my 357 MAX barrel, but I have no intention of selling it like I would a WHOLE rifle or REVOLVER I hadn't shot in years.
I feel it is very much worth having the SECURITY of knowing that I' less hemmed in by my choices and have more options to exercise should I become suddenly totally broke or component-supply never snaps back.
I'm not sure I didn't just talk in a big circle, but my shade/version of that concept is solid - cemented in my psyche and I feel good about it after quite a few of these ridiculous "shortages." Live and learn, I guess. My grandad, sitting on the tailgate of my pickup, drinking a beer he wasn't supposed to be drinking, and a long time ago, told me "hit's a shame we don't git smart enough to live until we're too old to do it."
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