tj3006
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,965
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Post by tj3006 on Dec 4, 2020 7:48:26 GMT -5
This happened awhile back,
but i did not want to post on it. Till all the legal crap was done. The guy is a partner in a gun store near my house. He was shopping at a Home Depot, and in the parking lot some employee's were trying to catch a shoplifter. My friend decided to help out. The guy turns on the crowd and fired a flare gun The flare hit my friend a couple inches below his eye ! He fired his 9mm, I think a Glock 19, And hit the Guy 6 times with 147 grain , i think Federal HPs. The guy went down instantly But survived ! and even walked out of the Hospital several weeks latter. My friend is fine, but wore a bandage on his face for awhile. He came out of it fine legally too. He said the guy was a Skinny little crack head, but he took 6 9mm rounds and lived to tell about it. I am just glad he only had a flare gun. Even a .22 in the face could have really screwed the good guy up. I am not sure i would have gotten involved in a shoplifting chase. If there was somebody hurting people , i would have jumped in for sure, but, I think i would have stayed out of this... Hard to say without more information, what to make of the ammo performance. I have no idea where the guy was hit, and am not sure how many actually hit him. (my friend said he fired six times, and is sure they all hit, ) But i would be damned proud of my self if after taking a flare to the face , i managed to keep my wits about me and stay calm enough to act appropriately and get 6 good hits, And the guy was down and out instantly, so the ammo stopped the threat, But still I will most often pack a .45...tj
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Post by bula on Dec 4, 2020 10:07:12 GMT -5
Am glad your friend is ok. Myself, my POV, I'd not of joined in on chasing a shop lifter. Off of my own property, away from my loved ones, the threat will have to come to me. In my home, I will advance on threats to keep them farther from loved ones. Also glad that the legalities worked out for him too. Guessing store Security unarmed ?
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Post by dougader on Dec 4, 2020 11:12:32 GMT -5
Aren't you in Oregon TJ? I'm out in Yamhill county. Was it the Home Depot in Sherwood-Tualatin area?
I wouldn't get involved either, for a shoplifter. The store has insurance to cover theft, so I'd let the tweaker run off and just call the LEO and make a report.
If this happened in Portland or Salem I'd think your friend would have had more trouble with LEO and especially the DA.
Best to get self defense insurance in any event.
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Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,554
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Post by Fowler on Dec 4, 2020 13:41:48 GMT -5
Rule no 1 of a gun fight, the best way to survive a gun fight is not to be in one. So basically I'm not getting in anyone's elses fight unless they are family or close friends. Some guy wants my cash, my truck, fine take them, its not worth killing someone over. The financial loss is nothing compared to the legal fees defending yourself, if you are really protecting someone's life, then shoot and make the hits count. Just my two cents...
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Post by lockhart on Dec 5, 2020 13:43:47 GMT -5
Well, I am retired and live exclusively on SS, so my view is I am not letting anybody take my truck, cash, etc. For me, it IS worth killing some dirt-bag over. Your miles may vary.
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Post by patrick1948 on Dec 5, 2020 16:35:26 GMT -5
Legally he is one lucky guy. Firing 6 rounds in a parking lot with others around and not knowing where they went plus engaging in a shoplifting pursuit Not a very smart man IMHO I am glad he is ok and any bystanders .
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Post by nolongcolt on Dec 5, 2020 21:38:39 GMT -5
My dad used to say, "don't look for trouble, it'll find you soon enough". Always amazes me that folks will risk life and limb for stuff from a store! Its why we hire police, let them do their job. No amount of stuff is worth that amount of risk.
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Post by oddshooter on Dec 6, 2020 11:04:09 GMT -5
Many years ago, I had a Judge as a mentor. He had an interesting take on crimes against people versus crimes against property.
He believed thieves had somewhat the same values as anybody else. They placed value on the same items that non thieves placed value on. He didn't like it, but he could understand theft. It was a little wrong.
What he didn't understand was hurting others, especially on purpose. He had very little tolerance for folks who used violence to further their aims. He knew we all lost it occasionally, but what separated the good guys from the bad guys was their willingness to go past their own inhibitions. Placing value on their own feelings over the value of a human life was wrong; and it was a big wrong.
Burglary was a tough crime for him; it was a crime of theft, but the probability of a dangerous encounter went way up when it was in your own home.
It's a tough choice to make. He often said, "I guess there's no comfortable chair at this table".
Prescut On the rare day he handled divorce court, his last words as a good Catholic boy before heading in were, "Here I go asundering". He had a wicked sense of humor.
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Post by texasdude74 on Dec 27, 2020 11:08:49 GMT -5
Big risk getting involved with stopping a shop lifter. Too many unknowns. Story is another example of why I feel 9mm is questionable for personal defense. Far too many similar stories of guys taking 5-10 rounds and living to tell the tale. And for those that before hand make the decision to let a criminal take your keys, your cash and your truck; understand he may take all you have then give you two rounds to the face for good measure. Maybe to keep you from calling the cops, maybe cause he’s high, maybe cause he’s just mean. Expecting a criminal to conduct a fair and civil robbery is a big leap of faith.
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Post by Thunderjet on Dec 27, 2020 11:43:15 GMT -5
Give the OP a break. He was simply reporting what his friend did. He doesn’t need a morality lesson as to what you would do, or not do. Besides, unless you were the one hit in the face with a flare gun you really don’t know what you would of done. I am glad he posted about the 9mm and number of rounds fired and the end result.
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Post by dougader on Dec 27, 2020 12:16:51 GMT -5
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JM
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,423
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Post by JM on Dec 27, 2020 12:28:37 GMT -5
It would be educational to learn more about the ammo + placement.
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Post by x101airborne on Dec 27, 2020 17:01:58 GMT -5
Im sorry your friend went through all this but I applaud him for his personal stance on the issue. I am not sure I could take a flare to the face and still shoot back. Your friend had .5 seconds to make a decision and act. We have 20 years to second guess him. Not fair at all in my opinion. Rain on a thief.
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Post by nolongcolt on Dec 27, 2020 22:50:11 GMT -5
If he had not joined in on the festivities he likely would not have taken a flare in the face. He volunteered.
We all have every right to defend ourselves, if threatened, but when you get involved in something like this voluntarily, you run the risks of injury, death or prosecution.
Like I said, no amount of stuff is worth the risks. Call the cops and MYOB.
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Post by bigbore5 on Dec 29, 2020 5:04:16 GMT -5
I think the op point was the performance of the 147gr 9mm. I have had plenty of experience with the 147 9mm. It has a reason for being. It is the best weight bullet to cycle the action of the mp5sd submachine gun. The integral suppressor requires a subsonic load but the bolt won't unlock and function with the recoil generated by the lighter bullet subsonic loads. That bullet doesn't expand well. I have had to use them in both the SD and in the PDW MP5. They suck. Sometimes it would take two or even three BURSTS (3 rounds) to drop even a 130 pound Somali. That's why the 115 and 124gr jhp out performed it in real life. It just doesn't expand well in a person and is very prone to over penetration.
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