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Post by tinkerpearce on Nov 5, 2020 2:16:45 GMT -5
A good few years back a friend gave me a 1911a1. He had assembled it a decade before and sent it off to get some sort of Teflon coating that was all the rage at the time. By the time it was returned to him he was into Glocks, and it had been sitting idle for years. I was delighted; I like 1911s and didn't have one at the time. It's a bit of a Frankengun; the slide is WW2 Vintage and the frame has no identifying marks, so it's provenance is unknown. Aside from a beavertail grip safety, Pachmayr mainspring housing and grips and extended trigger it was all GI. The color... not good. But hey, it was a gift, and it shot great and was reliable. The trigger pull is genuinely good; not heavy, with a crisp break and short, positive reset. OK, the GI sights suck and the color isn't my favorite, but it was a gift from a good friend and it works well. I did a couple of small modifications; I glued a piece of eraser to the front of the grip frame to form a finger-groove when the Pachmayrs were stretched over it, and a buddy gave me a stainless flat mainspring housing, but that was about the limit. Then my friend passed on, and I felt like I shouldn't change it further.  Then last week I'd wrapped up my work for the day and decided to stipple the mainspring housing to improve the grip. That came out good, but it was... sparkly. I dropped it some Ferric Chloride for about thirty minutes, which gave it a nice matte gray finish. Looks OK and does what it's supposed to. I was talking to Linda, who had noticed I don't shoot the 1911 much, and I said I didn't want to change it because I got it from my now-deceased friend. She pointed out, correctly, that he would have been fascinated to see what I would do with it, and would have thought it was cool. Fair enough. I went to work. I stripped the green from the the slide, except for the recoil-spring tube, then flattened the top. Then I noticed the sides weren't actually flat; wartime production; it needed to be functional, not pretty. I went to work and flattened the sides of the slide. I stripped the rear sight, enlarging and squaring the aperture, then reinstalled it. Ever since I shot IPSC back in the prehistoric era I've liked a narrow front sight, and in recent years I've developed a preference for brass front sights, so I installed a narrow brass front sight. I sanded all of the exposed metal to 240 grit, then finished the slide with Mark Lee Instant Rust Blue.  The picture shows the flat-top slide, the new/modified sights and the stippled mainspring housing.  I don't mind the green so much now that it's only on the lower parts of the gun, and I like the flat-top slide.  There's a bit of color to the slide. I suppose I could have done a few more cycles of rust blue but honestly I don't mind it.  I also beveled the magazine well. It's not much, but it gives a little margin for error on fast magazine changes. So nothing earth-shaking or radical; just a few simple cosmetic and functional modifications. I'll be heading for the range tomorrow morning and see how it all works out. |
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nicholst55
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Post by nicholst55 on Nov 5, 2020 4:05:05 GMT -5
Looking good. FWIW, that's not a WWII slide; it's from much later - late 70s or early 80s. Among the last of the military 1911 slides. I think I'd have to replace those GI sights if it were mine, though.
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Post by squawberryman on Nov 5, 2020 6:15:32 GMT -5
The color looks similar to Birdsong OD green. William Birdsong invented a proprietary teflon coating way back. He's passed on, they still operate. Yeah that color is no bueno but I am a fan of the product and its' results. If all your guns innards are green that's a good thing.
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 5, 2020 11:15:54 GMT -5
----tinkerpearce ***** That is not a GI slide. Leastwise, left side has what appears to be a government procurement number, which it is my impression is a very high end slide for match guns. It is by not means a serial number, as I have seen quite a few of these slides. The roll marked number small, no t gaudy, and finely done, same quality as on a vintage Colt. The slide is a hair thicker than Colt standard 1911. And hard as Hell. A master engraver at Colt carved in script a legend on the side of one of these slides on a gun of mine. According to him, the slide resisted his engraving tool and that no factory Colt he’d engraved came close to its toughness. Were I to have a gun built on that slide, I’d leave it dimensionally stock, and make the rest of the gun fit it. Long time since I weighed slides; recollect that slide to weight a hair more than stock 1911, and to fit tight in a water-molded holster made on the stock 1911. As for appellations, I wouldn’t call a 1911 with beavertail grip safety and burr hammer a “1911A1.” Even though the scallop behind the trigger looks A1. Footnote: Springfield Armory, Springfield, Massachusetts, has small sheet steel barrels (about twice the size 0f a pail) stacked with 1911’s and sealed for storage after WW II or Korea. One I saw, with top removed, held a neat, circular stack of 1911’s in greenish Parkerizing. Perhaps it was just the light, or olive drab surroundings.... David Bradshaw
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nicholst55
.375 Atomic
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Posts: 1,142
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Post by nicholst55 on Nov 5, 2020 16:38:22 GMT -5
Mr. Bradshaw, I have to disagree. The last generation of GI 1911 slides had the drawing (or part) number engraved on the left side, and the CAGE Code (Commercial and Government Entity - the manufacturer) engraved on the right side. The cocking serrations on all GI slides are vertical. They are also much softer than the NM slides. We refereed to GI slides from that era as 'Ball Point Pen' slides, as we had never heard of the manufacturer and speculated that they used to manufacture pens. The NM slides all had (at least as far as I am aware) angled cocking serrations and slightly different geometry. They also had the drawing number (which is different than the GI slide) on the left side and manufacturer's ID on the right - initially either made by Drake or Colt. I believe that IMI made the last batch of them and just engraved their CAGE code on the right.
If the OP will provide the drawing number and CAGE code, I can check them on FEDLOG and see what turns up.
NM 1911A1:
Standard M1911A1: |
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 7, 2020 9:31:47 GMT -5
Mr. Bradshaw, I have to disagree. The last generation of GI 1911 slides had the drawing (or part) number engraved on the left side, and the CAGE Code (Commercial and Government Entity - the manufacturer) engraved on the right side. The cocking serrations on all GI slides are vertical. They are also much softer than the NM slides. We refereed to GI slides from that era as 'Ball Point Pen' slides, as we had never heard of the manufacturer and speculated that they used to manufacture pens. The NM slides all had (at least as far as I am aware) angled cocking serrations and slightly different geometry. They also had the drawing number (which is different than the GI slide) on the left side and manufacturer's ID on the right - initially either made by Drake or Colt. I believe that IMI made the last batch of them and just engraved their CAGE code on the right. If the OP will provide the drawing number and CAGE code, I can check them on FEDLOG and see what turns up. NM 1911A1: Standard M1911A1: ***** nichols55..... the slide I refer to has a small rollmarked number on the left side. There are no other markings. Serrations are the standard vertical Browning wedge. The master engraver at Colt certainly knew the difference between soft and hard steel, and he pronounced it hard as fury. It is not a National Match slide. I owned and hunted and shot some steel wirth a Colt 1911 National Match built mid-60’s, which was more reliable with hollow points than numerous IPSC guns so highly touted in the 1970’s. That NM slide is lighter than standard 1911 and would not be a candidate for upper .45 ACP loads. It is my guess the number rollmarked on the left side is a procurement number, with the slide meant for match guns; not meant to be fed into endless 1911 rebuilds. No idea when the slide was made but it was before 1970. Are you saying that Colt National Match slides are harder than GI contract? And, did GI slides not become harder after WW I, starting, say, with the 1911A1? Is there a difference in steel and/or heat treatment between GI contact and civilian slides? David Bradshaw |
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nicholst55
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Post by nicholst55 on Nov 7, 2020 19:15:15 GMT -5
Interesting. I've learned to never say never with Colt (or Ruger), but I'm not familiar with such a beast. The average post-war GI slide is much, much softer than the NM slides, as pictured on the top pistol in my post. I once took an NM slide to a local trophy shop for some engraving, after a co-worker showed me a (late production) GI slide that he had done. The engraver told me that there was no comparison in hardness between the two. The NM slides were through-hardened, due to the large volume of rounds those guns typically fired. WWII GI slides were typically only spot-hardened at the slide stop notch, bushing seat, and at the rear. You will frequently see WWII guns that exhibit a spotted appearance where the slides were spot-hardened. The parkerizing is darker in those areas. I don't have enough experience with commercial Colt slides to speak to that.
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 7, 2020 21:46:55 GMT -5
tinkerpearce and nichols55.... seeing different “77----“ numbers, I’ll have to check the “77” my slide. I’ve seen a couple others, like mine without any other marking. Seems at least one matched my number.
My mid-60’s Colt 1911 National Match was rollmarked “National Match” on the slide in small letters. Typical for those guns, frame carried NM-prefix serial number. To digress, I sold the gun to a collector whom apparently marveled at some IHMSA steel shooting I managed while studying the mortar-trajectory of .45 ACP out to and beyond 200 meters.
As further digression, we burned through quite a bit of ruby-red .45 ACP TRACER. Told it was good for 50 yards, I found burnout beyond 100 meters. It was judgement the accuracy was falling apart @ the 100 meter pig, but we shot black sights against steel pigs cast in headlights. Hardly tournament lighting! By the 200 meter ram, iron sights silhouetted by faded headlamp was not a blueprint for tight shooting. Yet we tried. Tried to correlate phosphorous burnout to accuracy fall-off. Although distance unspecigfic, I believe tracer burnout accelerates accuracy fall-off.
David Bradshaw
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nicholst55
.375 Atomic
Retired, twice.
Posts: 1,142
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Post by nicholst55 on Nov 7, 2020 23:28:50 GMT -5
I did some very casual 200-yard shooting with an NM 1911A1 GI pistol. Enough to know that sustaining hits on a full-size silhouette target is pretty chancy if there is the slightest bit of wind! And it was always windy there in Texas! I never had the opportunity to try this with anything other than M1911 National Match Ball ammo, and some handloads. No tracers. Those 230 grain FMJ punkin balls were definitely not intended for long range precision!
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Post by flyingzebra on Nov 8, 2020 12:16:03 GMT -5
...A master engraver at Colt carved in script a legend on the side of one of these slides on a gun of mine. Was that Ken Hurst? I used to spend time on the phone with him every Saturday morning. |
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 8, 2020 13:00:02 GMT -5
...A master engraver at Colt carved in script a legend on the side of one of these slides on a gun of mine. Was that Ken Hurst? I used to spend time on the phone with him every Saturday morning. ***** John.... Leonard Francolini. David Bradshaw |
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