45 70 loads

[snakereaper]

Ok guys and gals need ing some info want to lic some brains . It has been a long time since I reloaded for the 4570 .the old thing of powder i had said made in Scotland on it.
But here goes I am going to be using starline brass , hornady 300 grain hp, cci 200 primers and a new unopened can of h322. That I just bought.

Going to be shooting same load in stainless marlin and a magnum research bfr. So I don't want to hot.

Check horndy trap door loads there 300 grain started at 40.7 max 54.8

Also checked Speer trapdoor loads they gave 49.0to 51.0grains

So I check the hornady manual for h322 in a 300 grain in marlin loads. Nothing. So I checked the speer they gave 52.0 for starting load and 56.0 for max for marlin loads.

Ok then I decided to check Hodgon load data for trap door , pistol , and marlin loads HOLLY COW. Big difference the trapdoor and pistol were the same at starting loads of 54.0 grains of h322 and max of 60.0. And the marlin loads were starting loads of 57.0 max was 63.0 c.

So my question is why is Hodgdon loads so much hotter on there websight. Thats a big difference. I am just wanting a good load that I can shoot in both and not break shoulder and wrist doing so.

So do o use the trapdoor loads or marlin loads out of speer manual? Or do I use the ones off Hodgdons web page. There is a big difference in all 3 .

[leadhound]

My Speer doesnt even show a 300gr

But an older Lee has these listed

The 57 to 63 gr load you mentioned shows for Bolt and Ruger single shots only.

[snakereaper]

Its the speer reloading manual#14 and double checked itis a 300 grain fnhp. And the 57 to 63 came off hodgden reloading websight. Off if there marlin only loads. On there ruger number 1 and modern gun they don't list any h322 for it. Thats why I am confused about it. Seems like they bypast the trapdoor load and put marlin loads for trapdoor and rifle loads for the marlin loads. That just what they put.on there sight seems way to much to me. I guess ill just use the trapdoor off out of speer and hornady reloading books.

[reflex264]

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[reflex264]

If I am understanding correctly the difference is because they were two different bullets. When doing pressure testing with 45-70s I ran Starline raw brass, Remington raw brass, Remington nickel plated brass and Winchester brass. I also ran numerous bullets. Changing the brass even effected pressures as well it should. The case volume varies from manufactures to manufactures. Even the nickel plating changed pressures with identical loads. Changing components changes the dynamic of the situation. I can tell you that 54 grains of H322 with the Hornady isn't going to get you in trouble. It would be hard to break 20,000CUP even using the Starline brass and Hornady bullet. I will have to look at lab sheets when I get home but I think we rand the 300 Hornady with H322.

[webber]

I have a BFR in 45/70 and have had 2 Marlins in 45/70. I would run Marlin loads in both. Unless recoil is a deciding factor. The BFR is chambered in 450 Marlin or was and it will take Marlin 45/70 loads.
Also as Tim Sundles about his ammo in a 45/70 BFR.
Why trapdoor loads?

[taffin]

This is why I recommend every reloader/handloader (Yes there is a difference) have at least three current loading manuals. Consider all the variables involved when pressure testing ammunition: first there is the brass, bullet, primer, and powder all coming from different lots. Then there is the testing equipment itself along with reloading dies, firearm, barrel dimensions... And three very important ones often not considered by loaders are altitude, humidity, and temperature. 30+ years ago when developing loads for JDs 6.5 JDJ in the Contender I found loads which saw the fired brass literally fall from the chamber in Idaho gave me stuck cases went hunting in Texas. It is also impossible to read pressure from a fired case. Cratered primers and stuck cases definitely tell us to back off however normal-looking cases may actually be overpressure. Shooters often say as to their fired brass "no pressure signs". That is impossible! The only brass which doesn't show pressure signs are brand-new unfired cases. Often shooters ask someone to tell them what is the maximum load for their gun. Can't be done. Too many variables. Also realize loading manuals come from different sources. Hornady, Sierra, and Speer are bullet companies; Hodgdon's and Western are powder companies; Lyman is neither one.

[boolitdesigner]

Sometimes it takes forever to educate an individual or a group. You really don't need high pressure loads in a 45-70 regardless of it's pressure potential; after all, the buffalo hunters killed several million buffalo with army trapdoors and ammunition (or their equivalent)... which was a 405 gr. bullet somewhere around 1,200 fps. Normal express loads (for that era would be a 300 gr. bullet at 1,500 fps) do quite well.

[webber]

I have been putting powder, primers and bullets in cases for 50 years that I have processed by using tools that are actually operated by me and not a machine
Does that mean I reload by handloading or do I handload because I reload?
Also concerning pressure. Is 35,000 PSI low because it is lower than 60,000 PSI or high because it is higher than 18,000 PSI? Or could it swing depending on which level one is talking about?

[snakereaper]

I'm not wanting high pressure or max loads I just want to know I'm safe when I start and then let the guns tell me what they like the best in groups and in recoil. Yes I can handle extreme recoil no problem .but to kill Georgia deer and bear and hogs they are no need in it. I probably over study everything . I was just looking at all the manuels tring to decide on starting loads to be safe with what I have because the hornady book does not have data for marlin loads for the 300 grain pill and h322. So I figured I would start with the trapdoor loads and work up from there to see what load my marlin and bfr likes best. My son will probably be hunting with the marlin and me with bfr . Have to make sure they shoot well are safe and don't set his 16 year old butt in dirt when he shoots them. Lol 😆 which is funny because since he was 5 years old he has been a recoil junky . The harder it kicks better he likes . But anyway sometimes I over study things and just want to be safe so I like to ask people that has been doing g it longer and have lots more knowledge than I do.

[leadhound]

Oct 26, 2020 13:28:28 GMT -5 webber said:

I have been putting powder, primers and bullets in cases for 50 years that I have processed by using tools that are actually operated by me and not a machine
Does that mean I reload by handloading or do I handload because I reload?
Also concerning pressure. Is 35,000 PSI low because it is lower than 60,000 PSI or high because it is higher than 18,000 PSI? Or could it swing depending on which level one is talking about?

I'm just guessing but I think reloaders reload fired rounds, handloaders would be more of load development and purpose ammo. Maybe a sort of handloaders can be reloaders but not all reloaders are handloaders type of thing?

[webber]

Oct 26, 2020 15:43:11 GMT -5 leadhound said:

Oct 26, 2020 13:28:28 GMT -5 webber said:

I have been putting powder, primers and bullets in cases for 50 years that I have processed by using tools that are actually operated by me and not a machine
Does that mean I reload by handloading or do I handload because I reload?
Also concerning pressure. Is 35,000 PSI low because it is lower than 60,000 PSI or high because it is higher than 18,000 PSI? Or could it swing depending on which level one is talking about?

I'm just guessing but I think reloaders reload fired rounds, handloaders would be more of load development and purpose ammo. Maybe a sort of handloaders can be reloaders but not all reloaders are handloaders type of thing?

So a reloader that handloads or a handloader that reloads is someone that never does experimentation on load developement? So a reloader cannot be developer of loads through experimentation but a handloader can be an experimenter of load developement? So a reloader that handloads is haphazard? Not a handloader that reloads

[webber]

Please, no one get haywire with my post. Just tryin to make some humor using the terminology of reloader and handloader. I have been asked if I reload my ammo by many people and I say yes. I have never been asked if I handload my ammo. Terminology and used of the words didn't enter my mind that one is a low grade and one is a high grade term.
I guess it is my lack of understanding of proper use of terms and their proposed meaning.
From now on I will say ia ma handloader since I have done my share of experimenting and/or load developement since I have owned wildcat calibers and still do along with commercial calibers as well.
Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. Just not into the intricacies of the terminologies unless it is needed for absolute accuracy due to a high degree of importance of a subject.

[bradshaw]

The .45-70 Springfield is a long, fat case, which limits loading happiness in a short barrel. Grand old IMR 4198 produces extreme accuracy from a spectrum of cases----even the .357 Maximum with 200 grain bullets in a revolver. But the expansion ratio of the .45-70 in the shorter revolver barrel is apt to cause wide Extreme Spreads with the long stick powder IMR 4198.

Wide ES with fat bullets in a revolver exhibits as VERTICAL SPREAD on target. IMR/Hodgdon 4227 to Accurate 5744, to Winchester 680/Accurate 1680, might reign in the ES at moderate pressure. I would call lab folk at Hodgdon, specifically in mind of low pressure with accuracy from handgun barrel. Staying within Springfield Tarpdoor pressure constraints adds another limitation to the recipe.
David Bradshaw

[reflex264]

This might help you. Since you are trying to use H322 Hornady did test and publish data with their 300gr in several of their manuals.