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Post by bobwright on Oct 28, 2020 20:56:01 GMT -5
I opened this thread thinking I was going to see a photo of a snake with its head blown off!
Bob Wright
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Post by oddshooter on Oct 29, 2020 12:11:18 GMT -5
I opened this thread thinking I was going to see a photo of a snake with its head blown off! Bob Wright Now, that's funny ! Prescut
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Post by oddshooter on Oct 29, 2020 12:22:18 GMT -5
David,
I had my own concerns, like yours, about using a 22 caliber Model 17 until I looked at the cylinder. That SW 17 and 18 have as much meat around that cartridge as I've ever seen.
I'll see if I can get a response from Green Frog about how many and what kind of loads he's pushed through his SW17 conversion.
I have a Harrington and Richards revolver in 32 H&Rmag. Although they helped create the caliber, I do not trust what I see from them to handle hot loads. I would not hold one and fire the 327fm even if it was reamed to fit.
Thanks for the references. Sweet list. And if I can speak for the entire forum, please keep the Ruger personal history stories coming. Without your remembrances and recollections, I believe a good part of the intimate story would be lost to time.
Prescut
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 29, 2020 15:00:59 GMT -5
Prescut.... thank you. The Rugers enjoyed the company of individuals of diverse accomplishment and skill. Bill Ruger wanted to plumb the mind of improvisational ballistician Gerald Bull, Not sure they ever met. Gerald Bull may have been brilliant at math, or chemistry, or both, developing extended range artillery. While I never met Gerald Bull, my friend Jerry Bouchard and I hunted partridge on Bull’s Space Research property close to where it straddles the Canadian border. Hiking the mountain into strong downhill breeze we didn’t jump any birds, but chanced upon a black bear eating under an apple tree. Were it not for the wind, the bear would have alerted to us through fall foliage and vanished in a rustle of leaves. As it was, I set my Browning Auto 5 Buck Special stoked with 5’s or 6’s on the ground, drew a pre-Gold Cup Colt 1911 National Match from shoulder holster, to slip a Federal (Sierra) 185 JHP into the throat and out the back brain. Distance, half a football field. Bouchard drew his Redhawk .44 7-1/2” (there were no 5-1/2” Redhawks at that time), also from shoulder holster and kindly asked if I’d mind him pumping a slug into the slumped animal’s chest. Bouchard wanted to be sure the bear was dead. “Sure,” says I, confident his shot unnecessary. Jerry Bouchard wanted to wet his Redhawk.
Bill Ruger felt Gerald Bull caught a raw deal, that his sale of long range artillery shells to the apartheid government of South Africa was hardly a secret. Gerald Bull himself, I have little doubt, felt slighted by Uncle Sugar, hell bent since WW II promoting missles as the end-all projectile of space age combat. While bullets fired from guns were hopelessly obsolete, relics of a neo-bronze age.
In my estimation, Gerald Bull bit the hand that didn’t feed him. Firing artillery into outer space isn’t cheap, and Uncle Suger wasn’t buying. Meanwhile, Saddam Hussein invited Gerald Bull to “continue development" in Iraq. Bull constructed a strange piece of pipe of reportedly close tolerances, allegedly pointed at Israel. When the New York Times announced Gerald Bull had been shot while entering his apartment in Belgium. My immediate thought: “Mossad; Beretta .22." The NYT story pointed no finger, nor did I hear mention of a possible culprit anywhere else.
Metallurgy is a big part of exotic propulsion, even our everyday ballistics, subjects bound to congregate in Bill Ruger’s mind. But metallurgy represents a field of questions in the minds of Bill & Bill, Jr., often more questions than answers. Greek to us mere mortals perfectly content to throw lead----providing it hits!
Which brings us with a question to cylinder steel: is a K-22 cylinder suitable for cenetrfire? And, is a Diamondback cylinder suitable for centerfire?
We don’t need to know the metallurgy but we should know whether a cylinder in question is up to the task. David Bradshaw
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Post by flyingzebra on Oct 29, 2020 15:59:53 GMT -5
Mr Bradshaw
I can't speak for all Ruger rimfire revolvers, but I can state that I'm hammering the snot out of my 10mm Single Six and my 5.7x28 Single Six with full-house loads.
No problems so far.
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 30, 2020 10:19:26 GMT -5
Mr Bradshaw I can't speak for all Ruger rimfire revolvers, but I can state that I'm hammering the snot out of my 10mm Single Six and my 5.7x28 Single Six with full-house loads. No problems so far. ***** John.... seems Ruger built his Single-Six in the pattern of his centerfires----strong. As well as frames, I suspect cylinder also were heat treated. David Bradshaw
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Post by flyingzebra on Oct 30, 2020 10:24:39 GMT -5
I think that there likely was some sort of treatment for the cylinders - although I haven't considered boring a Single Six cylinder for conversion.
One of the loads for the 10mm is a 200gr bullet at 1400fps. I'm getting over 2200fps with the 5.7x28
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Post by oddshooter on Oct 30, 2020 11:01:08 GMT -5
David,
You started with a preparatory remark "Bill Ruger wanted to plumb the mind of improvisational ballistician Gerald Bull"; I had no clue where you were going, but I loved the plumb and improvisational part. Then came the Canadian border hunt and you had me hooked; throwing in the Gerald Bull history was fascinating.
I spent a decade in my 20's living in the backwoods of Western Montana. Your narrative made me fell like I was back home and walking with friends again. I could feel the wind on my face and the joy in my heart.
I loved where you took me, but I had no idea where we were going. Then with a small slight of hand, you emphasized the metallurgy and we circled back to the topic at hand. That was a journey well worth the trip.
I have to go find material to read more of that Gerald Bull story; it's got to be fascinating how he got to Iraq. And I always enjoy any tale of Bill and Bill Jr.
And to get back on topic myself, I can only add that I have a Colt Diamondback in 38 Special; so I'm pretty sure the cylinder can handle centerfire. However, the 38 Special+P is rated to 18,500psi while the 32 H&Rmag is rated at 21,000psi. That extra 2,500psi difference is a little scary for a K frame.
Prescut
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 30, 2020 22:14:53 GMT -5
Prescut..... thank you for the kind words. Sitting with IHMSA All-American and Python maestro Jerry Moran, his wife and son, at the un-funereal gathering for Bill, Jr., on the grounds of Blue Mountain Forest. We faced Bill, quiet in his coffin, in front of the 1924 American LaFrance fire truck he bought at age fifteen, to fully restore much more recently. Among the few speakers----to a man and woman keen as a straight razor----a friend from childhood. Jerry Moran chuckled as this man sketched his friend: “Before there was Google, there was Bill Ruger, Jr.”
Once, driving through Yellowstone after an IHMSA championship, a sunny late summer day, we spot the smoke of a small forest fire. “Let me out,” commands Jerry Moran. "I’ve got to fire that fire.” These days Jerry Moran's hair is white; hair plenty red in those days.
“You don’t suppose they have a crew,” says Ruger, "somewhat better attired for the occasion?” We took a cabin, then pressed on to Cody for a tour of the museum.
These are the kind of guys, the more you've known them, the more you miss ‘em. David Bradshaw
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Post by 45MAN on Oct 31, 2020 7:36:50 GMT -5
I think that there likely was some sort of treatment for the cylinders - although I haven't considered boring a Single Six cylinder for conversion. One of the loads for the 10mm is a 200gr bullet at 1400fps. I'm getting over 2200fps with the 5.7x28 CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE SOME INFO ON THE GUN AND THE LOAD YOU ARE GETTING 2200fps WITH IN THE 5.7x28.
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Post by oddshooter on Oct 31, 2020 9:23:58 GMT -5
I will forever remember the photos someone shared of the Un-funeral. It seemed quite obvious what he meant to those people in attendance. Their expressions said it all.
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Post by flyingzebra on Oct 31, 2020 10:20:34 GMT -5
CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE SOME INFO ON THE GUN AND THE LOAD YOU ARE GETTING 2200fps WITH IN THE 5.7x28. The hardware side of the discussion, opened frame, rim to centerfire conversion, single six, 4140 cylinder, Wilson 1:8" twist barrel, five shots. The load is based on Western Powders load guide, I'm running a Barnes banded bullet that started life as a 50gr TSX that I remove the ass-end to leave one groove and weight 30 grains. I think I'm using a 6-1/2 primer with that load. I find that with this revolver that I need to start at the low end of suggested data. It doesn't behave like any other cartridge I've handloaded. It's very very sensitive at the high end of performance. I have a Trail Boss load with the Armscor 40gr JSP bullet that's brisk and accurate - likely hotter than 22magnum. I just got a jar of Tin Star to work with, and it should get even more power, without being an atomic load. Really cool revolver.
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Post by 45MAN on Oct 31, 2020 11:46:48 GMT -5
flyingzebra: ANY SET BACK ISSUES? HOW IS THE FORCING CONE HOLDING UP? WHAT DOES FACTORY AMMO DO?
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Post by flyingzebra on Oct 31, 2020 13:45:04 GMT -5
No set back issues with loads that don't wreck the primer pockets. Forcing cone is looking great.
Factory ammunition does fine, although note that the only factory load I have here is the SS197SR, which is a fast load with the 40gr V-Max bullet.
If you would like me to try other variants, send them and I'll run them.
I can make it set back with an excessive hand load - but it's unnecessary. Solid loads at ripping velocities do great.
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