|
Post by Encore64 on Oct 1, 2020 18:49:20 GMT -5
I've enjoyed this because it's been civil. We all have our favorites & once you have a few kills, or a few dozen kills under your belt you can be pretty stubborn about your choices, no problem with that, you've seen it work! The biggest problem with cast is, many won't take the time to find the correct alloy & it does take some serious testing but guys like John Linebaugh, Glen Fryxell & our own Bob (bullet designer) DO NOT sell Bob short, he's as knowledgeable an anyone on the forum, he just doesn't brag about it. Trust me he can help just about anyone when it comes to cast bullets. Dick I'm with you Dick. There are many "right" ways to do most things. I've studied ballistics, terminal ballistics, energy transfer and such for 41 years. I've learned a lot, but more I don't know than I do know. Not every post matches my own experience, but no less valid. I've enjoyed reading everyone's opinions and knowledge. It seems it's been that way for generations. Elephant hunters argued over smallbores such as the 6.5mm and 7mm vs. the Nitro Express Cartridges. Roy Weatherby and Elmer Keith were light years apart on High Velocity vs. Pumpkin Rollers. It's great to see an information exchange sans the argument.
|
|
|
Post by leftysixgun on Oct 1, 2020 19:16:11 GMT -5
I've enjoyed this because it's been civil. We all have our favorites & once you have a few kills, or a few dozen kills under your belt you can be pretty stubborn about your choices, no problem with that, you've seen it work! The biggest problem with cast is, many won't take the time to find the correct alloy & it does take some serious testing but guys like John Linebaugh, Glen Fryxell & our own Bob (bullet designer) DO NOT sell Bob short, he's as knowledgeable an anyone on the forum, he just doesn't brag about it. Trust me he can help just about anyone when it comes to cast bullets. Dick I'm with you Dick. There are many "right" ways to do most things. I've studied ballistics, terminal ballistics, energy transfer and such for 41 years. I've learned a lot, but more I don't know than I do know. Not every post matches my own experience, but no less valid. I've enjoyed reading everyone's opinions and knowledge. It seems it's been that way for generations. Elephant hunters argued over smallbores such as the 6.5mm and 7mm vs. the Nitro Express Cartridges. Roy Weatherby and Elmer Keith were light years apart on High Velocity vs. Pumpkin Rollers. It's great to see an information exchange sans the argument. Hahahahahaha, I know this isnt any help, but “....High Velocity vs. Pumpkin Rollers” is just beautifully funny to me! Thank you for that laugh Huey.
|
|
|
Post by Encore64 on Oct 1, 2020 19:19:50 GMT -5
"High Velocity vs Pumpkin Rollers" was a pair of articles in the 1951 Gun Digest.
Roy Weatherby wrote one side and Elmer Keith the other.
That wasn't an original statement, but a reference to an ongoing difference of opinion.
|
|
|
Post by leftysixgun on Oct 1, 2020 20:21:05 GMT -5
Not sure if tis has any relevance to this thread but. This actually reminds me of a friend of mine helping a family member of his fill a moose bull tag last October, about a year ago. The family member brought his 270 WSM for the hunt. The family member shot a bull moose at or within 100yds. He spent all three rounds that the rifle held. They later found the moose still alive. All three shot were decent shots, none of the three shots penetrated worth a damn. My friend pulled his 45 colt (300gr class cast HP Ruger load) handed it to the family member to finished off the moose from 20-30yds. They found the slug next to the hide on the offside of the moose where it should have exited. This cast bullet should have been running around the 1250fps mark at the muzzle if I remember right.
With the exception of varmints, I have always been one to shoot heavier bullets at a decent velocity.
|
|
|
Post by potatojudge on Oct 1, 2020 21:38:43 GMT -5
I believe cast bullets can do most of what can be done with a bullet, but sometimes it requires expertise or information many of us lack.
I'd need a cast bullet that wasn't just accurate, but that was made by someone who knows terminal performance and exactly what I want to do with the load.
The guys in this thread who do cast, I'd trust them to make me the right bullet if I told them the job I had in mind. I wouldn't feel great ordering just any bullet that is the size, weight, and profile I wanted if I was chasing something large and mean. In that setting, monolithic solids are a known quantity.
|
|
|
Post by boolitdesigner on Oct 2, 2020 18:14:11 GMT -5
I've enjoyed this because it's been civil. We all have our favorites & once you have a few kills, or a few dozen kills under your belt you can be pretty stubborn about your choices, no problem with that, you've seen it work! The biggest problem with cast is, many won't take the time to find the correct alloy & it does take some serious testing but guys like John Linebaugh, Glen Fryxell & our own Bob (bullet designer) DO NOT sell Bob short, he's as knowledgeable an anyone on the forum, he just doesn't brag about it. Trust me he can help just about anyone when it comes to cast bullets. Dick There are a lot of alloys out there... recommended by a lot of top shooters that will hold you back from getting the performance you want. This is especially true when using hollow pointed bullets. It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Then we have this: “Over powering” isn’t a bad thing as long as the bullet can handle the velocity......" This is pretty easy to test..... there are rifles in every appropriate caliber that there are handguns in. Load it up to the velocity you want and see. If your results show it fails, then you are using an inappropriate alloy. This isn't bull hockey either. I'm a fan of shooting high velocity cast in the .308 semi-autos...... my design 175 gr. bullet leaves the barrel at about 2,358 fps with no leading and fouling... as cast air cooled it's 8 BHN and water dropped it's about 19 BHN. No difference except bullet upset in the barrel for the 8 BHN one. No accuracy difference either. Dump a full magazine fast and you can burn your hand on the barrel but that barrel is bright shiny and no lead in it. Yep, it makes a big difference what alloy you choose. Try that with yours and see what you get. I think that could be considered trying to over power an alloy, don't you? And Max, I'm not picking on you. You seem to be set up to hammer an animal that has a bad attitude and will try to get even with you for putting a hole in it. This goes the same for those big bears....... both close range for a vindictive animal to be at, so no heartburn for the monolithic solid even though Ross Seyfried showed how to do it. Thanks for the kudos Dick.
|
|
|
Post by whitworth on Oct 2, 2020 18:47:47 GMT -5
It’s all good, Bob!
Ross was feverishly working on a better mousetrap when he was modifying Trophy Bonded Sledgehammers for big-game handgun hunting. He had lots of trouble keeping them in the case. But he eventually moved away from handgun hunting. I have never seen a cast bullet that does well on heavy support bone, and that is my main trepidation for using them on really big animals.
|
|
|
Post by boolitdesigner on Oct 2, 2020 19:17:06 GMT -5
I have never seen a cast bullet that does well on heavy support bone, and that is my main trepidation for using them on really big animals. I would imagine that punching boiler plate is in the same category. Very few things in a handgun will do that. But there are several designs out there that will punch a rather clean caliber hole thru it without undue stress on the shooter. The newest example is in .50 caliber. I rather impressed some police officers one day on the range when they said it couldn't be done and I showed them it could (and I'm not saying what, but it involved penetration testing). I would like to see how it would do on heavy support bone. I assume that to be the shoulder knuckle.
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Oct 3, 2020 8:31:58 GMT -5
Elgin Gates said the last time he let someone carry his rifle involved an encounter with a cape buffalo. The gun bearer dropped Elgin’s shoulder stick and took to high tailing’ it. This drew the interest of the cape buffalo, which of course runs much faster than a human. Elgin whips out his Smith & Wesson .357 Mag and rips two or three shots into the freight train broadside. The slight irritation causes buffalo to turn on Gates, who scrambles up an acacia tree. “I had no illusion I could stop the animal. But I turned it away from the gun bearer, who didn’t stand a chance."
Years ago I watched a rhino at the San Diego Zoo munch huge acacia thorns with its cement lips like a mouthful of Wheaties. Elgin manages to mount a limb, recognizing to his surprise he still has .357 in hand. Buffalo thrashes tree... steps back to contemplate his next move.
“I couldn’t take much more of that,” says Elgin. “Nor the tree.” The buffalo turns, presenting a profile, and in that moment Elgin, arm rested over a limb, squeezes a round into the buffalo's ear canal. The armor piercing round----it may have been a brass bullet or a Winchester Full Metal Jacket cone designed for penetrating auto bodies----found its way to the cape buffalo’s brain.
A vignette not about hunting which occurs on a hunt. David Bradshaw
|
|
|
Post by bula on Oct 3, 2020 9:01:57 GMT -5
You don't always get the hunt you wanted !
|
|
|
Post by sixshot on Oct 3, 2020 10:07:51 GMT -5
And sometimes you're the hunted! I remember one time when Elgin was at my house eating his second pork sandwich my wife had made him, made on her homemade bread that he mentioned one time hunting in Africa with the famous PH Blacklaws. He said that Blacklaws told him they should try to call in some lions. Elgin explained to him that it was totally dark & that it might not be a good idea. Anyway they loaded up in the safari truck, which was open on all sides & drove out to an area Blacklaws was familiar with & parked. Blacklaws proceeded to take a long length of rubber hose & an empty 5 gallon bucket & he placed the bucket out about distance from the truck & stuck one end of the hose in it & rolled the rest of it back to the truck & they hopped in. The echo coming out of the bucket would carry for a long distance. Blacklaws could roar like a Lion & after a few minutes to let things calm down he began to roar, Elgin thought it was quite funny but after 30 minutes or so (not sure) Blacklaws turned the lights on of the safari truck & they both were surprised to see Lions all around them! Don't remember if they shot one or not but Elgin believed him after that.
Dick
|
|
|
Post by bula on Oct 3, 2020 11:00:11 GMT -5
Yikes ! Dorothy we are not in Kansas anymore.
|
|
|
Post by whitworth on Oct 3, 2020 11:06:28 GMT -5
High pucker factor indeed!
|
|
|
Post by dougader on Oct 3, 2020 16:27:30 GMT -5
You don't always get the hunt you wanted ! Classic Bula! LOL!
|
|
|
Post by ddixie884 on Oct 5, 2020 22:13:48 GMT -5
Mr Gates wrote that up in a magazine and I think I remember he said it was a "Highway Master". I was pretty young at the time and very impressed by the picture in my mind of which I could only imagine................
|
|