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Post by squawberryman on Sept 25, 2020 12:12:05 GMT -5
KC is a fan of buffers I take it? That'll start a conversation....
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Post by zeus on Sept 25, 2020 13:18:42 GMT -5
Starting price on that is 10K. Wowza Luke used to build most of the rifles for Ed Brown and did pistol work there as well. Super nice guy and his work is extremely nice from the few I've had the opportunity to handle.
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Post by maxcactus on Sept 25, 2020 17:12:01 GMT -5
His credentials are certainly impressive and it looks like he builds a very high quality pistol. Given most of those MEUSOC tools run @ $3500-4000, he really needs to hire a good photographer and web designer to advertise his wares in the best light possible. Hard to sell any tool if it can't be seen let alone held in the hand. Zeus, your Rock River commander looks great. I'm not a fan of shorter autos, but that's very nice.
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Post by AxeHandle on Sept 25, 2020 19:38:34 GMT -5
Don't think KC is hurting for work... He builds the best for the best...
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Post by maxcactus on Sept 25, 2020 22:50:38 GMT -5
Don't think KC is hurting for work... He builds the best for the best... I have no doubt. I just wish his catalog of work was better illustrated. Most of the pistols in his gallery appear to be competition or game related. No problem with that. I'll just have to call him to discuss a basic but solid SD/carry gun. Thanks for the referral, Axe.
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Post by AxeHandle on Sept 26, 2020 6:13:36 GMT -5
You will enjoy talking with him. He is one that will actually talk to you NOT at you...
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Post by Thumper on Sept 27, 2020 12:23:39 GMT -5
I just hadn't realized it was so elusive, even at the $1500-2000 level to find a properly fitted barrel, let alone an entire pistol. It's obviously difficult to check this before purchase, also. Pretty sure a properly fitting barrel according to the original JMB blueprints has the barrel riding the link, just like most production 1911s do. Not to say there aren't better ways, but that doesn't necessarily make the way JMB designed it wrong. It's not hard to check. If you can separate the slide and frame, toggle the link, and if you see 100% of the hole through the range of travel, it's standing on the link and not locking up on the legs. You should see it slightly go below the surface in the locked up position. The original, issued 1911s are the only ones besides full customs I have found to all have proper lock up and not be standing on the link. They were intended to be that way.
Very informative thread. I've read great things about Joe Chambers. What are peoples thoughts on the Cabots? They're excellent machinists. They are (maybe "were" if they are being run by someone else, now) not the finest of gunsmiths. The only guns of theirs I've known anyone to have are both in the my gunsmithing instructors shop for mechanical issues.
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Post by mike454 on Sept 27, 2020 14:10:20 GMT -5
Pretty sure a properly fitting barrel according to the original JMB blueprints has the barrel riding the link, just like most production 1911s do. Not to say there aren't better ways, but that doesn't necessarily make the way JMB designed it wrong. It's not hard to check. If you can separate the slide and frame, toggle the link, and if you see 100% of the hole through the range of travel, it's standing on the link and not locking up on the legs. You should see it slightly go below the surface in the locked up position. The original, issued 1911s are the only ones besides full customs I have found to all have proper lock up and not be standing on the link. They were intended to be that way.
Very informative thread. I've read great things about Joe Chambers. What are peoples thoughts on the Cabots? They're excellent machinists. They are (maybe "were" if they are being run by someone else, now) not the finest of gunsmiths. The only guns of theirs I've known anyone to have are both in the my gunsmithing instructors shop for mechanical issues. I couldn't read a blueprint to save my life, but from what I've read the original blueprint has the barrel standing on the link in lockup. If you believe differently, I won't argue the point. It's pretty apparent that it's not the best way. forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=970512
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 27, 2020 14:55:37 GMT -5
"The original, issued 1911s are the only ones besides full customs I have found to all have proper lock up and not be standing on the link. They were intended to be that way.” ----Thumper
*****
Ben Kilham recounted a caper from his time at Colt’s. Reliability problems plagued production. Seems there was always some struggle with management. Kilham says one of the old timers went to a file, pulled out Browning drawings for the 1911. "Let’s make one to these dimensions."
Kilham laughs, “It worked perfect." David Bradshaw
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Post by AxeHandle on Sept 27, 2020 18:26:46 GMT -5
No drawings to look at here. Have held a few examples though. Bought an old military Springfield Armory 1911 in 1974. Then when the powers that be wanted us to compete with rack grade 1911A1s in the early 80s, since we blue suiters and had no 1911s, I got to hold about a dozen new arsenal rebuilds. Those rattle traps did not lock up on anything. The slide stop pin, lugs, and the link were in there somewhere. Absolutely nothing was fitted. We mixed and matched the parts to get the best fit we could. We had fun! My gunsmith recommended that we grease them with plastilube and shoot at least 1000 rounds through them, cleaning the bore only, before taking them to matches. Free guns, free ammo, pay, and making retirement points. Life was good! ... As much as the general populace likes to look down their noses at Kimber you can thank Kimber for making everyone build better stuff.
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Post by boolitdesigner on Sept 27, 2020 18:54:20 GMT -5
The last 10 years or more have been good. I've tried quite a few models of the 1911 out in gun stores for fit. None of them rattled or were loose in any regard, slides tightly fitted and finished relatively well with triggers that usually needed some work. I'm not much of a fan for custom and I modify my own to the level I want. Overall things are much better than they were.
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Post by unclezeb on Sept 28, 2020 21:40:29 GMT -5
I’ve owned a few 1911s and a couple I built from donor guns, and even built a 6” long slide from hardfit parts. Aside from my long slide the most enjoyable gun I’ve owned is a les Baer premier II. Sold everything else and it’s the only 1911 I own now out of the 10 or so I have owned/ built and tweaked. 10k+ rounds later shooting bullseye, hunting and just playing I’m actually getting ready to order another premier II in 10mm. The only 1911 I wish I still had was an LAR grizzly in 45 win mag, it went to a collector because I knew I’d eventually wear it out to wear it would become difficult to find replacement parts.
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Post by squawberryman on Sept 29, 2020 18:41:12 GMT -5
I have a Springfield that the previous owner sent back to Springfield and with the exception of the slide, frame, barrel and link, all (all) parts were replaced in the custom shop with Wilson Bullet proof parts. I have the build sheet. When I first got it I was darn near unable to rack the slide. I disassembled the gun and removed the spring and the slide to frame fit is nice but was not the cause of the "pain in the butt" fit. So I'm guessing it's the lockup in one or many ways. Kurt Rocke sells Springfield FBI HRT pistols he tells you up front you have to use your man hands to rack for firing. I'd definitely love to have a gun made better by a 2112 or Jason Burton but to the degree that I shoot my Ed Brown will probably do just fine. As with many things we chase this idea or that specification but at what point is there a payout? Just knowing? Does the emperor have clothes on? My single sixes and K22's outshoot me, but I have to have a Paco Kelly Accurizer to shrink my groups, it cannot be me. All is vanity and a striving after the wind.
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awp101
.401 Bobcat
TANSTAAFL
Posts: 2,632
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Post by awp101 on Sept 29, 2020 19:37:41 GMT -5
Maybe check out Joe Chambers and his Working Man's Gun (WMG). They're supposed to be all go and minimal show. 100000% yes. I would have said this from the start, but the WMG is more than $2300. True, it's over the initial budget but since he indicated he'd be willing to increase his budget I figured helping him spend the extra funds was a no brainer... All is vanity and a striving after the wind. Yeah, but it's a heck of a ride!
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Post by harold89 on Sept 29, 2020 21:37:14 GMT -5
Feel free to skip my long-worded story and jump to the questions if you prefer. I spent the time perusing the 1911 picture thread. It's giving me ideas. I've owned several 1911s over the past 30 years. In all that time, I've never owned what most might consider a "premium" 1911. In fact, I sent most of the 1911s I owned down the road because they were marginally reliable at best, even with premium magazines and hardball ammunition. I currently own two 1911s. The first is a basic mil-spec Springfield Armory that I purchased > 30 years ago - my first auto pistol. This tool has been reliable, after some work. The second is a Kimber Custom, now 20 years old. The Kimber has a great fit and a very nice trigger, but has struggled in the reliability department before. A new recoil spring seems to have solved that problem, but I'm reluctant to trust the pistol until it has a LONG record of good behavior. Also, I'm not thrilled with some features like the plastic mainspring housing (seriously, Kimber?). I'm not a kid anymore. I have a little bit of discretionary income. I'm thinking a nice/nicer 1911 might be in order. Obviously, the 1911 market is gigantic and pretty much anything a person might want can be had, if not factory/out of the box, then via the custom route for sure. I'm not looking for anything fancy, crazy, or out of the ordinary. I want a serious social/self-defense tool. 5", .45 ACP, the common/usual "enhanced" features that used to be custom - extended thumb safety, good sights, good trigger, etc. Above all, I want it made of premium materials (tool steel vs. MIM), well fitted, and dead nuts reliable. What I don't want: A target gun, adjustable sights, a compensator, 9mm, 10mm, or .38 Super, etc. So that brings me to my questions: 1. At roughly what price would you separate "standard" mass produced 1911s from "premium" manufactured 1911s? $1000? $1500? $1800? More? 2. At what prince point do you feel diminishing returns start setting in? I know this is subjective, so I'm asking for your opinion. Where do you feel real benefits start dropping off and a customer starts paying for bling or bells and whistles that do little to improve performance? I'd love to have a Jason Burton Heirloom Precision, but I want a hard use tool that won't suffer massive depreciation due to range use, carry, etc. 3. Given a budget of between $1500-2300, which 1911 in your opinion do you feel offers the best value for your $$ and which would you choose for a serious SD tool? I'm thinking perhaps a Les Baer Concept IV (sorry Axehandle!) or a Dan Wesson Valor or Specialist. The Specialist has a light rail. Not sure how I feel about that yet as new holsters would be necessary, etc. Thank you all in advance. 1. $1800 2. $3000 3. Les Baer
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