GSSP
.30 Stingray
Posts: 107 
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Post by GSSP on Sept 20, 2020 12:19:45 GMT -5
Out shooting my 3.75" Ruger Bisley in 45 Colt. A load which works well in my 5.5" Bisley and Winchester 1892 runs a healthy dose of H110, Starline cases and Fed 155 Gold Medal Match primers. The load came through for me, printing several 5-shot groups running sub 2" at 25 yds. It used to run smaller groups but my aging eyes and iron sights...... My concern is the horrible ES and SD. Even the good ones were running 151 ES and 46 SD. I figure if I had better neck tension/crimp that might bring my ES/SD down. I loaded this lot of ammo with the Redding Dual Carbide sizing die, Redding expander die measured at .447", Redding standard seater die and the Redding Profile Crimp die. My 285 gr LBT WFN bullets, 18 BHN using water cooled WW with a pinch of Tin measure .451" after lube/sizing with LBT blue lube. The measurements give me .004" neck tension which I assumed would be enough. Your thoughts please? Alan   |
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Post by dougader on Sept 20, 2020 12:23:42 GMT -5
Can you size the bullets .452"? Maybe try 23.0 grains of H110? Or switch up to 2400 for the powder? Try a CCI 350 primer with the H110? Could be something simple.
OTOH, it sure looks to shoot accurate as all get-out!
ETA: What are your numbers in the rifle? Is the ES and SD less? Maybe 2400 or AA9 is better suited to the 3" pistola.
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Post by 45MAN on Sept 20, 2020 14:30:30 GMT -5
THE LEE 45 COLT FACTORY CRIMP DIE SERVES 2 PURPOSES: 1) IS A CARBIDE SIZING DIE THAT SQUEEZES THE CASE DOWN/RESIZES THE CASE (APPLIES MORE CASE TENSION TO THE BULLET, AND 2) CRIMPS THE CASE, PURPOSE No. 1 MAY BE OF HELP.
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Post by boolitdesigner on Sept 20, 2020 14:58:28 GMT -5
THE LEE 45 COLT FACTORY CRIMP DIE SERVES 2 PURPOSES: 1) IS A CARBIDE SIZING DIE THAT SQUEEZING THE CASE DOWN (APPLIES MORE CASE TENSION TO THE BULLET, AND 2) USES A COLLET TO CRIMP THE CASE, PURPOSE No. 1 MAY BE OF HELP. You are confusing two types of LEE crimp dies. Below are descriptions from Lee's website for each type. Lee 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 460 S&W** Carbide Factory Crimp Die sizes the cartridge while being crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability. This die applies a roll crimp. The adjusting screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. Trim Length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition, as it eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders. 45 Colt Collet Style Crimp Die. Incorporates a collet to apply a rifle type crimp to the case. Makes these very difficult to crimp cartridges a delight to reload. Bullets do not need a crimp groove, as the collet is so powerful it will form one. NOTE: This die is not carbide. |
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Post by wheelguns on Sept 20, 2020 15:08:53 GMT -5
If your expander is .447” and your bullet is .451” you have plenty of neck tension. These measurements should be made with a micrometer. I wouldn’t trust calipers. For what it is worth, I setup all of my cast bullets with .002” of neck tension using noe expanders in lee universal expanding dies. If it were me, I would either up the charge with the h110, or switch to 2400.
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Post by 45MAN on Sept 20, 2020 16:25:40 GMT -5
boolitdesigner: I WAS REFERRING TO THE CARBIDE DIE, WHICH USES A COLLET TO CRIMP, DID NOT REALIZE THERE WAS THE NON-CARBIDE VARIETY FOR THE 45 COLT. THANK YOU FOR THE EXPLANATION.
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Post by boolitdesigner on Sept 20, 2020 17:52:31 GMT -5
boolitdesigner: I WAS REFERRING TO THE CARBIDE DIE, WHICH USES A COLLET TO CRIMP, DID NOT REALIZE THERE WAS THE NON-CARBIDE VARIETY FOR THE 45 COLT. THANK YOU FOR THE EXPLANATION. Never heard of it....... Can you give a link to it? |
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GSSP
.30 Stingray
Posts: 107
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Post by GSSP on Sept 20, 2020 18:29:14 GMT -5
Can you size the bullets .452"? Maybe try 23.0 grains of H110? Or switch up to 2400 for the powder? Try a CCI 350 primer with the H110? Could be something simple. OTOH, it sure looks to shoot accurate as all get-out! ETA: What are your numbers in the rifle? Is the ES and SD less? Maybe 2400 or AA9 is better suited to the 3" pistola. The 2nd target, the one with any info, is 23 gr. The rifle numbers are as follows. 1546 fps average, 46 ES, 16 SD. Same load in my 5-1/2" Bisley are 1152 fps, 72 ES, 25 SD. In addition, I was thinking these were water cooled but rather air cooled and run 12-15 BHN. Saw this when I saw my notes on the 5-1/2" and 20" 1892; which is a modern Winchester, purchased some 3 yrs back. My cylinder throats are .452" so I suppose I could try sizing to .452". I have both 2400 and AA9. Might try them. Alan |
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Post by dougader on Sept 20, 2020 19:01:43 GMT -5
FWIW, I have never had better ES/SD than what you posted above for your rifle and 5.5" Bisley with W296/H110. Could be the "snubby" just doesn't burn that slow powder as well. The CCI 350 has the reputation of being a hotter LPP so it may help...
The other powders may work better overall. Would love to see your testing results.
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Post by 45MAN on Sept 20, 2020 20:03:33 GMT -5
boolitdesigner: I WAS REFERRING TO THE CARBIDE DIE, WHICH USES A COLLET TO CRIMP, DID NOT REALIZE THERE WAS THE NON-CARBIDE VARIETY FOR THE 45 COLT. THANK YOU FOR THE EXPLANATION. Never heard of it....... Can you give a link to it? YOU VERY WELL COULD BE RIGHT, AND I MAY BE MIXING UP MY NON CARBIDE LEE FACTORY CRIMP COLLET DIES WITH MY CARBIDE FACTORY CRIMP DIES. AM GOING TO EDIT MY ORIGINAL POST. |
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GSSP
.30 Stingray
Posts: 107
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Post by GSSP on Sept 20, 2020 20:53:47 GMT -5
If your expander is .447” and your bullet is .451” you have plenty of neck tension. These measurements should be made with a micrometer. I wouldn’t trust calipers. For what it is worth, I setup all of my cast bullets with .002” of neck tension using noe expanders in lee universal expanding dies. If it were me, I would either up the charge with the h110, or switch to 2400. Took my 1" Starett micrometer and it came out .0032". Call it .003" I didn't have it written on the 2nd group that it's 23 gr. In the 5-1/2" Bisley and Win 1892, anything over 23 gr, the groups started to open though it might work in the 3.75" barrel. |
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GSSP
.30 Stingray
Posts: 107
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Post by GSSP on Sept 20, 2020 20:57:29 GMT -5
FWIW, I have never had better ES/SD than what you posted above for your rifle and 5.5" Bisley with W296/H110. Could be the "snubby" just doesn't burn that slow powder as well. The CCI 350 has the reputation of being a hotter LPP so it may help... The other powders may work better overall. Would love to see your testing results. A simple test would be to try the CCI 350's which I think I have some. Alan |
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tj3006
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,966
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Post by tj3006 on Sept 21, 2020 22:32:56 GMT -5
I would not wory one bit about such numbers if the holes are where you want them and grouped close together ..
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Post by messybear on Sept 22, 2020 15:22:24 GMT -5
Try a different primer with H110 or try number 9 as was suggested. I get better numbers with 9 than either 110 or 2400. My lot of 9 is the same speed as 2400.
Hope this helps
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glb
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 29
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Post by glb on Oct 2, 2020 10:20:06 GMT -5
I have that same gun. I use 13.0 HS6 with a 265 WFNGC or 250 XTP and the RCBS roll crimp die. 1050 FPS, ES 20s and SD 7. I also tried 2400 (18.5) with the same bullets. Velocity was a little higher but ES and SD was high and showed at 50 yards. 25 yards they both group about the same. I use 2400 in the 45 Colt rifle with great results but the HS6 being a faster burn rate seems to work better in the short barrel.
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