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Post by larry44 on Sept 18, 2020 14:25:25 GMT -5
I've been reloading about 2 months now for my Ruger Single Seven with a 4.62" barrel and Fermin Garza standard .125" front sight. I'm the 4-set Lee Carbide dies replacing the neck expander with a Lyman Neck Expander M die and a Lee Crimp die. I've tested lots of different powders and cast bullet manufacturer and weights and have narrowed down the best performance to 4.4 grains of Win 231 in a Starline brass case, a Badman SWC 115 grain boolit, and a CCI 500 primer loaded to an OAL of 1.460". I don't have a chronometer but I'm loading to a published velocity of about 1053 fps. This allows my arthritic, 71-year-old hands a reasonable level of comfort. These are my two best targets with the above recipe. Both were fired with wrists rested on a Caldwell rest. The first target was five rounds fired at 25 feet and the 2nd target at 50 feet. I keep reading about others holding to "1 inch" at 25 yards and my performance is frustrating. I'm a very experienced shooter and have been shooting for 41 years and I think I should be doing better. My primary question is: what is the best I should be able to achieve with a 4.62" barrel? Will the degree of (roll) crimping make much of a difference? Should I order a more narrow sight from Fermin for a better sight picture? Or, is this pretty good and I should be happy? Thanks for any advice!!
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Post by taffin on Sept 18, 2020 15:04:38 GMT -5
There is no way anyone here can say what you can expect from your shooting as we don't know how well you shoot! I can tell you what I can do and I am 10 years older than you. This week I put 12 different rounds through two 7-1/2" Ruger .44 Specials; five shots at 20 yards. In the first gun I had two groups of 1", 4 groups of 1-1/8", two groups of 1-1/4", and two groups of 1-3/8". In the second gun I had one group of 3/4", four groups of 1", three groups of 1-1/4", three groups of 1-3/8". These were all handloads using Oregon Trail RNFP bullets of three different weights and loaded with Reading dies. Personally I can shoot this longer barrel much better than I would expect to shoot the shorter barrel that you are talking about. Before you start chasing your tail all over the place changing this and changing that you might find a couple other fairly accomplished shooters to see what they can do with your sixgun and loads.
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Post by taffin on Sept 18, 2020 15:10:09 GMT -5
I looked up my records of the shorter Ruger .327 fro shooting 5 years ago: Test-Fire: Ruger .327 Single-Seven x 4-5/8” Handloaded Ammo Performance Bullet Powder Charge Velocity Group Size Speer 100 GDHP #2400 10.0 gr. 1,223 fps 1-5/8” Speer 115 GDHP #2400 10.0 gr. 1,239 fps 2” Speer 100 GDHP H110 12.5 gr. 1,275 fps 1-3/4” Speer 115 GDHP H110 12.5 gr. 1,346 fps 1-1/8” Speer 100 GDHP AA9 11.5 gr. 1,483 fps 1-3/8” Speer 115 GDHP AA9 11.5 gr. 1,488 fps 1-1/4” Hornady 85 JHP H110 14.0 gr. 1,426 fps 1-1/8” Sierra 90 JHC H110 13.5 gr. 1,383 fps 1” RCBS#32-115FNGC 2400 10.0 gr. 1,229 fps 1-1/4” Lyman #311316GC #2400 10.0 gr. 1,195 fps 1/2"
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Post by larry44 on Sept 18, 2020 15:26:54 GMT -5
Thank you for the suggestions and for your data. My 50-foot group was 2.25" CTC.
I'll try more powder for a faster velocity. I also have the powders you posted and will try to duplicate those loads.
Also, you didn't mention the distance you shot those groups.
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Post by wheelguns on Sept 18, 2020 15:29:33 GMT -5
Actually that’s not bad shooting. You are 71 and you are using iron sights. I am 59 and am not very good with iron sights. With a red dot, I can do great.
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Post by taffin on Sept 18, 2020 17:03:06 GMT -5
Also, you didn't mention the distance you shot those groups.[/quote]
I DID IN THE FIRST POST
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Post by larry44 on Sept 18, 2020 17:05:22 GMT -5
20 yards. My mistake, it didn't register with me. Apologies.
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tj3006
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,966
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Post by tj3006 on Sept 18, 2020 17:20:44 GMT -5
I don't thing you are doing so bad, I have a 5,5inch single 7 and have shot a bunch with that badman bullet too. My best shooting has been with AA#9 And i have gotten some very good groups, with that combo. And my opinion is you need to try some other powders, you will likly find somthing your gun likes better. But do not expect to shoot like John, unless you have in the past. I never have, but i aint dead so i might one day...tj
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Post by rjm52 on Sept 19, 2020 5:12:49 GMT -5
Looks pretty good to me with open sights...
One question on your shooting position... You stated you were resting your wrists on the bag... Since I see some vertical stringing my guess is that by resting your wrists on the bag right at a natural "hinge", any inconsistency in grip, arm tension or follow through will allow the bullet to exit the muzzle at a slightly different angle in recoil each time a round goes off causing vertical dispersion...
When I shoot off a bench, I try and support everything from my elbow to the base of the palm of my hand making it into a rifle stock and then preferably have a small rest under the barrel if possible. A moving blanket works great for this...
Bob
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Post by 45MAN on Sept 19, 2020 6:39:30 GMT -5
Looks pretty good to me with open sights... One question on your shooting position... You stated you were resting your wrists on the bag... Since I see some vertical stringing my guess is that by resting your wrists on the bag right at a natural "hinge", any inconsistency in grip, arm tension or follow through will allow the bullet to exit the muzzle at a slightly different angle in recoil each time a round goes off causing vertical dispersion... When I shoot off a bench, I try and support everything from my elbow to the base of the palm of my hand making it into a rifle stock and then preferably have a small rest under the barrel if possible. A moving blanket works great for this... Bob TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER: 1) A NARROWER FRONT SIGHT, e.g. .100 OR .110 vs .125 MAY HELP THOSE OLDER EYES - 2 DOGS OFFERS THOSE NARROWER OPTIONS; 2) LIKE rjm52 SAYS MAYBE "SHOOTING REST" ISSUES - STUDY UP ON SHOOTING REVOLVERS FROM A REST AND TRY DIFFERENT THINGS, MTM MAKES A GREAT PORTABLE SHOOTING REST; AND 3) THE FUN FOR ME/LURE OF SHOOTING 327's IS THAT YOU CAN PUSH 'EM PRETTY FAST AND THEY ARE STILL EASY TO SHOOT, AND SOME MORE SPEED MAY HELP, 6 - 7grs OF LONGSHOT AND 100gr BULLETS MAKES FOR A MEDIUM, EASY SHOOTING, LOAD BUT WITH PLENTY OF PEP.
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Post by wheelguns on Sept 19, 2020 7:15:28 GMT -5
Also agree on the thinner sights. I am down to .110” . Give Fermin a call. I bet he will thin down the one you already have.
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 19, 2020 7:18:16 GMT -5
"I keep reading about others holding to "1 inch" at 25 yards and my performance is frustrating. I'm a very experienced shooter and have been shooting for 41 years and I think I should be doing better. My primary question is: what is the best I should be able to achieve with a 4.62" barrel? Will the degree of (roll) crimping make much of a difference? Should I order a more narrow sight from Fermin for a better sight picture?" ----larry44 ***** Larry.... Revolver accuracybarrel length by itself has very little to do with the intrinsic accuracy of a revolver. Dimensional correctness & uniformity of rifled hole (bore & groove), forcing cone, chamber dimensions & finish, and chamber-to-bore alignment make or break REVOLVER ACCURACY. In a discussion of revolver accuracy, the revolver comes first. Ammunition second. To put it country simple, the best ammo cannot make a lousy revolver shoot straight. While it is true an out-of-balance bullet will not fly straight, nor a bullet which places COG (Center of Gravity) coincident to COF (Center of Form)----classic example: wadcutter. (The wadcutter may fly straight for a while; the Cone of Dispersion widens over distance.) A great bullet depends on a correct firearm. 1-inch at 25 yards....this is another cliche, which along with plinking and do it on demand is not in my vocabulary. Ever since some of us recorded 5x5 shot, 1" groups @ 100 yards with a revolver----really a development of handgun silhouette shooting----someone comes along to make it sound routine. I’ll wager most who say they’ve shot 5x5 into 1-inch @ 100 yards have never done it. Nor anything resembling that in World Class competition. Don’t worry about 1-inch groups, even @ 25 yards. Stay on your breathing, focus, and squeeze. Especially at 71 years, do not hold your sight picture more than 7 seconds, or exceed your MOMENT of CLEAR FOCUS. Always read the 3-FOCAL PLANES in order of importance: 1) front sight, 2) rear sight, 3) target. If your front sight turns to fuzz in 5-seconds, squeeze your shot in four. Only FRESH OXYGEN restores focus to the eyeball. BreathingOxygen performs another task in marksmanship, important as focus. Oxygen calms nerves. Nerve tension causes muscle spasm----bad news on the trigger. Bad news on the trigger spells bad news on target. SightsFront sight must be wide enough to support your eye. Depending on your EYE RELIEF, an 1/8” (.125") front sight covers 12” @ 100 meters, 24” @ 200 meters. (Or yards, again depending on individual eye relief----distance from eye to front sight.) A silhouetter could not expect to go far keeping shots on the size of an 1/8” sight @ 100 meters without missing a few. The steel shooter had to collect his or her shots in an area half the size of the front sight, and tighter is better. A narrow front sight fuzzes faster than a wide sight. Once the PLANE of the front sight fuzzes, vertical dispersion enters. Rear notch should be narrow enough to balance light to either side of blade. Notch not so wide as to imbalance the blade. Sighting is done on the HORIZONTAL PLANE of FRONT & REAR SIGHTS. Sighting is not done down in the notch. Rear notch too loose----difficult to keep front & rear sight on same plane. Rear notch too tight----front sight invisible in poor light. Vertical vs horizontal dispersion----with sight picture in balance, vertical or horizontal dispersion may relate to visual aberration. (Light and wind directly influence dispersion, but ewe’re discussing eyes, not weather.) 2Dogs, Sixshot and various other shooters on Singleactions prize a .100” blade. I sometimes but not always fall into this group. For deer hunting in the mountains, I prefer a wider blade, better in mottled light. AmmoIf the ammo is not known, it is good to have a round to compare. As a rule, I use the least crimp possible for consistency. Heavy rounds of course require crimp to hold bullets under recoil. I count neck tension over crimp. Artificial restMy brief encounters with mechanical rests of the Cauldwell sort leave me unimpressed. Much more than I’ve tried them, I’ve watched others using these contraptions struggle to find consistency from rifle as well as handgun. A sandbag, or two sandbags----one under barrel, one under butt----are key to milking the intrinsic accuracy of a revolver. CompetitionAn excellent shooter is apt to plateau, to reach a point of stagnation, where performance flattens. It is difficult to drive oneself beyond this plateau without someone to shoot with and against. Hard corp competition being the best training ground for nerves under pressure. Short of this, we must reach inside to distill the COORDINATIONS of MARKSMANSHIP. David Bradshaw
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Post by larry44 on Sept 19, 2020 16:51:43 GMT -5
Thank you to everyone who took the time to read my post and make such excellent suggestions. I do plan to call Fermin on Monday and discuss with him a narrower sight. I'll also take special attention to a more solid and repeatable rest for my arm/wrists.
I especially want to thank David Bradshaw for your very detailed suggestions and information!
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diddle
.30 Stingray
Posts: 469
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Post by diddle on Sept 19, 2020 17:50:47 GMT -5
Note that Mr. Bradshaw suggests two bags ... one for the barrel and one for the butt of your gun ... NOT your wrists. I’ll add that the sand bag under your barrel will last longer if you cover it with a nice piece of buckskin scrap or heavy canvas. Fancy sandbags are not necessary. I use soft canvas shot bags filled with spent primers and closed with a zip tie.
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Post by larry44 on Sept 19, 2020 19:07:39 GMT -5
I appreciate the correction!
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