Is there such a thing as stupid question? Maximum - ized

[squigz]

I've always heard no, there are no stupid questions; but I disagree and say yes, there are stupid questions. Not that this is one of them or maybe it is. 

I recently picked up and finished my Ruger 357 Maximum collection. The 7.5" is pure factory, never fired. The 10.5" was bought used, and fired. 

The 10.5" I don't have any information on, I contacted the individual I bought it off of and he said he purchased it off someone that had "shot it" but couldn't give any more information. The trigger on it, to say the least, is LIGHT; much lighter than I personally prefer on my revolvers. I don't have experience detail stripping single actions and I'm not entirely comfortable with doing so to find out for myself if there truly was work done or not.

To note: I haven't had the opportunity to shoot it myself yet, only dry fire in practice and I've been able to get a better understanding of working the light trigger. But you really have to be on top of your game and watch every little touch around it because it doesn't take much to send that hammer flying. I cannot shoot it with gloves like I normally shoot all my revolvers because I can't get the proper feel of the trigger before it "goes off".  

So the question, is there a way to "reverse" an action job and make the trigger a touch heavier? Again, this is without me knowing what happened on the internal parts, whether they were worked down, if it's just a replaced spring, etc. But my assumption is that there was some definite work done to get it to this point of a trigger pull.

My next step is possibly send it off to someone to have them take a further look at it, after I shoot it once or twice. Not sure if that should be Ruger or a Gunsmith; I assume Gunsmith since this was a aftermarket change. 

[contender]

NO SUCH THING AS STUPID QUESTIONS,, ONLY STUPID ANSWERS!!!!!

I preach that mantra to any & all students of mine in SCUBA or shooting or whatever.

Now,, on to your questions.
Short answer,, do not send it to Ruger. And yes, you can reverse the too light trigger. it will take a set of new parts,, but it's NOT a hard job for someone who knows Ruger NM SA handguns.
Off the bat,, I'd say our own Fermin Garza,, (2dogs,) can easily help you.

[bradshaw]

"So the question, is there a way to "reverse" an action job and make the trigger a touch heavier?”
----squigz

*****

Let’s break it down:

If your Ruger New Model trigger pull is very light, probably it is the result of the following:

* Excessive bending of factory trigger spring and a too-light aftermarket spring.

or,

* Correct trigger job with reduced full cock dog on hammer, with bent trigger spring or a too-light aftermarket spring.

or,

* Fugitive trigger job.

1) Check LETOFF. Grip revolver with minimum hand pressure. Cock. Squeeze trigger like you’re taking a baby’s pulse. Trigger should sweep reward @ hammer fall. If trigger bounces or kicks forward, engagement is fugitive. Some fugitive trigger jobs can be restored to proper service; some cannot be saved. Remember Bill Ruger’s REGAIN principle.

2) If proper trigger job was done for STATIC MARKSMANSHIP, i.e., steel shooting, contact patch may be too short for general carry and field shooting, especially in less-than veteran hands. Such a proper trigger job should be restorable by carefully reducing notch (steel below full cock dog. A flute in the corner of the notch of the New Model hammer eliminates the pesky corner found on most hammers. Which in turn facilities tune.

Thus, first check to be sure trigger sweeps reward at hammer fall. At the least, it should remain still, not bounce or kick forward. Note: a heavy trigger spring cannot correct fugitive engagement! Second, check trigger spring: the squeezed trigger must reset without hesitation.

Note: trigger jobs for IHMSA silhouette were performed with factory parts, as aftermarket parts were prohibited. The rules may have changed, but the records were set and top championships won with factory revolvers----no trick parts.
David Bradshaw

[squigz]

Aug 7, 2020 7:54:02 GMT -5 contender said:

NO SUCH THING AS STUPID QUESTIONS,, ONLY STUPID ANSWERS!!!!!

I preach that mantra to any & all students of mine in SCUBA or shooting or whatever.

Now,, on to your questions.
Short answer,, do not send it to Ruger. And yes, you can reverse the too light trigger. it will take a set of new parts,, but it's NOT a hard job for someone who knows Ruger NM SA handguns.
Off the bat,, I'd say our own Fermin Garza,, (2dogs,) can easily help you.

I'll have to give Fermin a call later today, it's been a little while since him and I chewed one anothers ears off.. 

[squigz]

Aug 7, 2020 9:14:11 GMT -5 bradshaw said:

"So the question, is there a way to "reverse" an action job and make the trigger a touch heavier?”
----squigz

*****

Let’s break it down:

If your Ruger New Model trigger pull is very light, probably it is the result of the following:

* Excessive bending of factory trigger spring and a too-light aftermarket spring.

or,

* Correct trigger job with reduced full cock dog on hammer, with bent trigger spring or a too-light aftermarket spring.

or,

* Fugitive trigger job.

1) Check LETOFF. Grip revolver with minimum hand pressure. Cock. Squeeze trigger like you’re taking a baby’s pulse. Trigger should sweep reward @ hammer fall. If trigger bounces or kicks forward, engagement is fugitive. Some fugitive trigger jobs can be restored to proper service; some cannot be saved. Remember Bill Ruger’s REGAIN principle.

2) If proper trigger job was done for STATIC MARKSMANSHIP, i.e., steel shooting, contact patch may be too short for general carry and field shooting, especially in less-than veteran hands. Such a proper trigger job should be restorable by carefully reducing notch (steel below full cock dog. A flute in the corner of the notch of the New Model hammer eliminates the pesky corner found on most hammers. Which in turn facilities tune.

Thus, first check to be sure trigger sweeps reward at hammer fall. At the least, it should remain still, not bounce or kick forward. Note: a heavy trigger spring cannot correct fugitive engagement! Second, check trigger spring: the squeezed trigger must reset without hesitation.

Note: trigger jobs for IHMSA silhouette were performed with factory parts, as aftermarket parts were prohibited. The rules may have changed, but the records were set and top championships won with factory revolvers----no trick parts.
David Bradshaw

I'll do my best to answer, so excuse and bear with me.

1) As you said, with a baby's pulse, I squeeze the trigger and view it from the side, upon the hammer falling the trigger slightly and I might SLIGHTY moved forward; then upon releasing what little pressure I presented on the trigger, it reset normally. If I SQUEEZE, with more pressure than a babies pulse, the trigger post shot it will depress further and not move forward.

It almost seems that if touching it lightly, it just wants to do the natural reset, but with more pressure that obviously goes away unless I let up myself.

2) After reviewing 1, I'm believe this is what it is. For general sporting use, in my non-veteran hands, it's too light for what I'm looking to do. If this gun was to be kept to range actions and shooting paper/steel I wouldn't mind. But eventually this will see woods time (hopefully this year) and a heavier trigger is something that is needed/wanted in my specific case.

To follow up on the non-numerical portion of your list "Thus, first check to be sure trigger sweeps reward at hammer fall. At the least, it should remain still, not bounce or kick forward. Note: a heavy trigger spring cannot correct fugitive engagement! Second, check trigger spring: the squeezed trigger must reset without hesitation.":

The trigger will continue reward after hammer fall if my trigger finger pressure persists.
It does not "jar" or "kick" forward with any measurable force upon "babies pulse" lightness of pull, it slightly pushes against my finger and depresses against my soft skin (I admittedly have girly hands, I work in IT for a living...)
The reset happens immediately as soon as I let up any pressure upon the trigger.

[taffin]

I cannot shoot it with gloves like I normally shoot all my revolvers because I can't get the proper feel of the trigger before it "goes off".  

quote]


CUT THE TRIGGER FINGER GLOVE TIP OFF

[squigz]

Aug 7, 2020 10:00:53 GMT -5 taffin said:

I cannot shoot it with gloves like I normally shoot all my revolvers because I can't get the proper feel of the trigger before it "goes off".  

quote]


CUT THE TRIGGER FINGER GLOVE TIP OFF

 I have those too, and as a short term, yes I can make that work. But in a real world hunting scenario, I would prefer it to not be so light as a mistake could easily be made under "Buck Fever". I try to keep everything as clean, safe and ethical as possible for myself and pursued game and I feel that the current lightness of the trigger pushes it beyond the point where I can keep those three things in line at all times and circumstances. 

[cas]

There are at least three things you can do (undo), but really none of them without being comfortable with working on and taking apart the gun.


Partially I wonder... is it you or the gun? Or a combination of both? I generally don't care for super light triggers, for a couple reasons. Yet I still let other people shoot my guns and have them say "Oh my God, that's so light. that's dangerous!" (in my head I'm thinking, that's not even close to light, what kind of horrible crap are you used to shooting?)

I can't shoot a handgun with gloves on, no matter how cold it is. Unless it's something super thin like a batting/golf glove, even then I don't care for it.

[squigz]

Aug 8, 2020 10:14:44 GMT -5 cas said:

There are at least three things you can do (undo), but really none of them without being comfortable with working on and taking apart the gun.


Partially I wonder... is it you or the gun? Or a combination of both? I generally don't care for super light triggers, for a couple reasons. Yet I still let other people shoot my guns and have them say "Oh my God, that's so light. that's dangerous!" (in my head I'm thinking, that's not even close to light, what kind of horrible crap are you used to shooting?)

I can't shoot a handgun with gloves on, no matter how cold it is. Unless it's something super thin like a batting/golf glove, even then I don't care for it.

I thought it was me at first too because I've never been much of a person for modifications to my guns outside of what you can do with factory adjustable triggers. 

But when I had a few people "touch" the trigger, well, they all jumped in surprise and I knew it was a little beyond my skill set for comfortable hunting. This is also by individuals who have shot trigger set in ounces. I can control the trigger myself no problem, just in a hunting scenario I don't trust the lightness. 

I also try to exclusively only shoot with gloves on because when I'm hunting through mountain laurel and thorn bushes almost exclusively, I want them on. So I tend to practice in whatever weather with those gloves with all my guns. 

[princeout]

Pull the grip panels and make sure both legs of the trigger return spring are in the proper place. Also see if there is an extra bend in the long legs. If your not sure, post a picture of the spring.
Tim

[squigz]

Aug 10, 2020 9:02:42 GMT -5 princeout said:

Pull the grip panels and make sure both legs of the trigger return spring are in the proper place. Also see if there is an extra bend in the long legs. If your not sure, post a picture of the spring.
Tim

To my eyes, looks like everything is in place, no bends etc.

[leadhound]

Those legs look bent, used in a manner to lighten the spring load on the trigger itself. I would pull it out and compare to a known factory unit.

[bradshaw]

[/quote]

*****

There appear two bends in the legs of the trigger spring. Should mainspring contact trigger spring at hammer fall, trigger may kick. Not only kicking your trigger finger, also kicking muzzle before bullets exits.
David Bradshaw

[squigz]

From the information you gentlemen provided, I took to YouTube and looked at disassembly of this.

I followed the instructions and removed the trigger spring. I then bent back the spring as best as I could for a temporary solution to see if that was going to get me closer to a resolution and it did.

I have to order a new Wolff spring to put in for the replacement now so that I don't have a bent up spring in use.

I want to thank you guys for pointing me in the right direction and teaching me something new today!

[cas]

Don't buy the Wolf reduced power one, it might be just as bad or worse.

Ruger would probably send you one for free if you told them what someone did to yours.
HOWEVER... if you tell them what gun it's for, they might not. Nothing to lose though. (or give them the serial number to another Blackhawk if you happen to own one)