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Post by squawberryman on Jun 24, 2020 13:38:45 GMT -5
I didn't want to hijack Mr. Thompsons' thread with Kim's knife. This is a tired old subject but here goes. Kim Ralston, Gene Ingram and the likes sell us a blade that is scary sharp. Once utilized for their intended purpose at some point something has to be done to TRY and get it back. I own stones and various mechanical devices. I'm guessing by the appearance of the edge from both makers it is accomplished mechanically. I realize there's probably no substitute for having a robot like arm that can hold an angle on a good stone. I fare pretty well there and all of my kitchen knives will dig into a dry onion skin. Some knives just frustrate me to no end. Thoughts?
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Post by leadhound on Jun 24, 2020 13:55:04 GMT -5
Depending on the alloy some won't hold an edge, some one take an edge. Even if it came sharp and you dont hold the same angle as original it wont be as sharp. Sometimes you have to use a coarse stone and start all over, obtain a base to start from. Depending on the blade type, if has been sharpened or too much you may be in thicker metal and have to thin done the blade then sharpen.
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Post by squigz on Jun 24, 2020 14:00:18 GMT -5
I'm no professional but I love sharpening my own knives, even if I do it wrong, they will still cut news paper cleanly with just their own weight.
I never liked the "factory edge" on the blades, generally speaking when I get a knife I take a file and file it off till I get a clean straight edge, from there I go to a old old old stone that was passed down to me from my father from his father who use to sharpen straight razors on. I don't know the name, grit, type etc. I just know it's a stone and it sharpens my knives.
Once on the stone, I put a little honing oil on the stone and then go from the spine of the knife to the blade edge, this, again to a untrained professional, creates a rolled edge of the steel. I'll do this for 10 strokes on one side, flip knife and repeat for another 10. I do that for a total of 50 strokes on each side, and then I start decreasing one stroke at a time till I'm down to one stroke, to which I'll do one stroke at a time on each side for 10 times. (hopefully that makes sense)
Once I have that done, there is still that "roll" on the edge of my knife, you can feel it. One side will appear sharp and the other side will be dull-ish. At that time I then push the blade from the blade edge to the spine as if a cutting motion, nice and slow attempting to stay as consistent as possible with the angle as I can with my human and non-mechanical hand. This I repeat the 10 strokes on each side, but only 10 then decrease the same way till I'm down to one on each side and I will then clean the blade and test.
If it feels like it's my desired sharpness, I'll take a old leather belt and strop (spelling?) it. One stroke each side till it's nice and polished. Then I'll new paper test it, if it passes, knife is good for me to go; otherwise I repeat the process of blade to spine sharpening starting at 5 strokes on each side, then decreasing the same yet again and then stropping. Any sharpening after that I just use a steel from my kitchen to touch up the edge, I even have a little travel one that I keep in my hunting backpack to touch up if I feel my blade getting dull whilst gutting, removing the hide or boning out an animal.
Does this mean I do it the right way? Hell no. This is just my way, probably the wrong way. But it's always given me my desired results and they generally hold a edge for 2-3 whitetails before I need to touch up the blade with the steel.
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akray
.30 Stingray
"Alaska is what the Wild West was"
Posts: 388
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Post by akray on Jun 24, 2020 14:06:38 GMT -5
I'd recommend the Work Sharp knife and tool sharpener. I've been able to put a decent edge on some knives with the Lansky sharpeners but it's hard to maintain a consistent edge. This system is faster and makes it a lot easier to stay consistent and make my knives sharp. I've used it on kitchen knives, filet knives and my hunting knives. They have guides for the thin blades and the thicker ones. They even have a Ken Onion edition which has wider belts. This is the best, most practical knife sharpening system I've ever used.
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Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,555
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Post by Fowler on Jun 24, 2020 14:14:04 GMT -5
I know Kim told me he uses the Lanski sharpening system (specifically the diamond set) and I have a set that works great, no the quickest but it sure works well.
For touch up between serious sharpenings I like the Spiderco Y stick sharpeners. If I dont let an edge get too dull I can generally get my knives back to shaving sharpness on the Spiderco in 2-3 minutes at most. I save the Lanski for setting or resetting and edge when it gets worked over hard...
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Post by leadhound on Jun 24, 2020 15:48:38 GMT -5
A lot of times just a quick lick on a steel will fix an edge, generally it's been rolled, viewed under a microscope it would look like a J, the steel will straighten it out. Preventing undue wear of blade by grinding away by sharpening. Too sharp of a blade is too fine of an edge and it will be a weaker point and roll easier, generally too sharp is bad for a utility knife.
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Post by contender on Jun 24, 2020 22:13:01 GMT -5
Not cheap,, but so far,, the best mechanical method of sharpening knives, repeatedly has been done here by a sharpening system by Wicked Edge. I grew up using stones & strops. I've tried all kinds of things,, including the Lansky. I have a Spyderco triangular set of sticks,, and all sorts of different things. Yet,, the ONLY system allowed by Miss Penny for her expensive kitchen knives is the Wicked Edge system. And while they offer different levels of set-ups, & all, I'd go with the most expensive you can afford. I first saw them at SHOT,, and was impressed. I bought one. Now,, they have models even better than what I bought.
And,, if you get a new knife,, find out what angle the edge is,, and you can keep using that angle with the Wicked Edge system.
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Post by magman on Jun 25, 2020 5:38:20 GMT -5
I have different Lansky style systems. They work ok. I bought the Wicked Edge system and haven't looked back. Buy once, cry once.
Leadhound I agree on your statement about too fine of an edge reduces long life of the blade.
My Kral knife is the first custom knife I have that didn't need touched up when I got it.
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KRal
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,029
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Post by KRal on Jun 25, 2020 10:19:41 GMT -5
Most, not all, custom builders use the quickest, easiest method to get and edge on a knife and out the door to the customer. That method is usually done on a variable speed belt grinder and done by hand/eye - normally done in just a couple of minutes (This is done on all factory knives). This method can produce a good edge, but the customer normally doesn't have this privilege. I'm kind'a OCD - especially with knife edges. I want my customers knives to be sharpened as I do mine. I don't use the belt grinder to establish the edge. As Fowler mentioned, I use the Diamond Lansky Pro system, leather strop, and a buffing wheel. I'm not saying its the best - just what I use. I usually spend 2-3 hours on the edge. Keep in mind, I'm starting from scratch, so it takes a little longer the first time. I do it by hand because no matter how fast I work that diamond stone by hand, the blade steel will not get hot enough to ruin the temper (if not VERY careful with motorized sharpening devices, a premium blade steel can be ruined quicker than a cat can lick its butt). I guess I just don't want all the time and effort I have in building a knife to be thrown to the scrap pile because of the last step of sharpening - ESPECIALLY if it has some expensive/hard to get material like Big Horn Sheep strapped to it! What some may not realize, regardless what system/device used, there's a proper technique required to get that razor edge. Bottom line is: if you don't keep the exact same angle on each stroke and remove the edge burr, you're not going to get that razor edge.
Some day I may give the Wicked Edge a try, but for now, I'll stick to what's working.
If anyone ever wants to chat about my method, feel free to give me a shout at: (662)230-2695 after 1700 central time. If I don't answer, I'll return you call as soon as I notice the missed call. We'll try not to get cross wired and start talking about handguns and handgun hunting.
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Post by kevshell on Jun 25, 2020 21:49:57 GMT -5
It may be sacrilegious to some but I use an Edge Pro. It will help you maintain bevels, be consistent, restore profiles, etc. Mine has 220 grit stones down to 3000 grit paper. Now that I have it I rarely go beyond the 800 grit stone. I've ruined several knife profiles and really appreciate that I can quickly put a scary edge on any knife now.
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Post by potatojudge on Jun 25, 2020 22:22:15 GMT -5
I use a Work Sharp for chisel and planer blades, but it's not really useful for knife blades longer than the radius of the glass plate. For chisels and planers it's perfect and fast. I have some jigs and tricks that I use with large Norton combination stones that have given me better edges than the base model Lansky or than what I can manage on a sanding belt. There is a lot of technique involved because it's very easy to kill an edge that was close to being excellent. Burrfection has a pretty good YouTube channel dedicated to sharpening. The edge testing tool is pretty neat. www.youtube.com/channel/UCOluHMoKJ6CrS0kcybhaThg/videosI do have one knife, a Kerskaw Leek with the D2 insert, that I can't get a good edge on. I chalk it up to the wrong knife for me and my system, since the others sharpen nicely.
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Post by contender on Jun 26, 2020 8:05:18 GMT -5
KRal,,, you are a professional,, and your methods work great for you & as the old saying goes,, "If it ain't broke don't fix it." But if you do decide to get a Wicked Edge,, get the best one they offer,, and even if you only use it to finish out your knives,, I think you'll be impressed. JMO! I'll admit to having tried many methods for many years. I'll admit to suffering compared to others when it came to a really good edge on a knife. And I know the importance of the angle & taking care of that "rolled over edge." The Wicked Edge has made my sharpening skills SEEM like a pro. Miss Penny has a nice set of Japanese Shun kitchen knives. It's all I use on them, as I can easily repeat the edge angle. I have 6 sets of stones too, that gives me 12 different grits.
We bought a top model of the "Work Sharp" for our oldest son. Why? He works for MicroTec Knives,, and has learned HOW to use belt methods of sharpening. I may consider one for my chisels & such,, AND get him to teach me what he knows.
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Post by kevshell on Jun 26, 2020 8:23:30 GMT -5
KRal,,, you are a professional,, and your methods work great for you & as the old saying goes,, "If it ain't broke don't fix it." But if you do decide to get a Wicked Edge,, get the best one they offer,, and even if you only use it to finish out your knives,, I think you'll be impressed. JMO! I'll admit to having tried many methods for many years. I'll admit to suffering compared to others when it came to a really good edge on a knife. And I know the importance of the angle & taking care of that "rolled over edge." The Wicked Edge has made my sharpening skills SEEM like a pro. Miss Penny has a nice set of Japanese Shun kitchen knives. It's all I use on them, as I can easily repeat the edge angle. I have 6 sets of stones too, that gives me 12 different grits. We bought a top model of the "Work Sharp" for our oldest son. Why? He works for MicroTec Knives,, and has learned HOW to use belt methods of sharpening. I may consider one for my chisels & such,, AND get him to teach me what he knows. I looked and the wicked edge too. I was between that and the edge pro. However I only have experience with the edge pro. As for the Shun, I do have a whole drawer full of the Classic model. They really like those knives. That's part of the reason I got the sharpener. For the shun and the few better quality benchmade, Winkler, etc. That I have. I did not want to ruin what someone with better skill put on the knife.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 23:43:00 GMT -5
The Lansky system works well on my knives with flat grind edges. My new favorite edge geometry is convex grind because it is easy to sharpen by hand using the edge of a leather strip and fine sand paper or compound. My new Kephart is convex and I'm really feeling at home with it.
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 1, 2020 8:23:12 GMT -5
I didn't want to hijack Mr. Thompsons' thread with Kim's knife. This is a tired old subject but here goes. Kim Ralston, Gene Ingram and the likes sell us a blade that is scary sharp. Once utilized for their intended purpose at some point something has to be done to TRY and get it back. I own stones and various mechanical devices. I'm guessing by the appearance of the edge from both makers it is accomplished mechanically. I realize there's probably no substitute for having a robot like arm that can hold an angle on a good stone. I fare pretty well there and all of my kitchen knives will dig into a dry onion skin. Some knives just frustrate me to no end. Thoughts? ***** Steel and heat treatment used in knife making varies widely. Old carbon steels are not particular and respond to many abrasives. Seems that old carbon steel knives were made to be sharpened with whatever was at hand, from sandstone to composite carborundum and “India” stones, to harder “Arkansas” stones. Stainless steel changed the sharpening drill, eliminating common stones which may push chromium molecules around without sharpening the edge. Hardness alone does not translate to edge-holding, with Buck a major example of a blade nearly impossible to sharpen, yet easy to dull. Jerry Busse makes knives of carbon steel with rust resistance which are both easy to sharpen and hold an exceptional edge. A Busse Battle Mistress is the only knife with which I’ve chopped through the femur bone of a whitetail. I did intentionally, laying the femur bone on a maple chopping stump. Took two swings on my first attempt to sever the tubular bone. The edge didn’t break, nor show a flat spot. On my second attempt I put all my arm into it and chopped clean through with one stroke. The femur did not splinter, but chopped through clean as if sawn. The knife still had its cutting edge. Never before or since have I subjected a knife to such abuse. Busse calls the steel he uses Infi----whatever that is. It cuts like fury and I sharpen it on a 2”x8" gray Arkansas or 3”x8” Eze-Lap diamond-impregnated steel. A Hendrix custom hunting knife ranks at the top as difficult-to-sharpen. A fabulous full tapered-tang hunter, beautiful to hold & use... yet to tune it drives me nuts. The Hendrix is hollow ground like an old straight razor, albeit with stronger edge. It wants, as KRal points out, a pass across a fine belt. The Eze-Lap works. The Hendrix snears at carborundum and Idea stones; don’t bother. Best to zip it across a fine 1” belt; follow with a zip across a buffing wheel. This knife doesn’t submit to Arkansas, let alone a composite. A Solingen carbon steel Bowie, with full tapered tang, made by Edge Brand in the 1960’s, well before German unification, features a flat-ground edge exceptional for keen cutting, edge-holding, and ease of sharpening on nearly any stone. Might be considered too much knife for deer hunting, yet comes alive on elk, and works as a real camp tool. Two flat ground, carbon steel knives made for the Navy in WW II combine excellent cutting on the deer mountain with the ability to sharpen on anything from a concrete curb or a carborundum scythe sharpener, up through India composites. While these blades have handles fashioned from a stack of leather washers----same construction as the famous Marine fighting knives----the steel is harder, flat ground to the spine, with superior cutting. A little tooth----rough finish on the edge----aids cutting though hide and cutting meat, especially with softer steel. A blade which cannot be made keen must have some tooth. Drag-through sharpeners with diamond wheels accomplish this, fast. I do not want the aggression on fine cutlery. Which precludes use of such tools on much of the cutlery in my daily use, from German chef’s blades to old French carbon paring knives with wood handles. My mother taught me how to sharpen on whetstones with her own prized paring knives, flat ground from razor steel. David Bradshaw
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