tj3006
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,958
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Post by tj3006 on Jun 7, 2020 9:42:03 GMT -5
I have a very good load for my .41 mag shooting, the 250 grain HP RN, from GT , i am pushing a bit over 1200 fps. It is cast 2-2-96, My more or less novice opinion, is that it should be great for Big mule deer. , but might lack penetration on a much bigger animal, Thinking of Buying 250 GT HPs for my 44s. Probably about 250 grains , My again novice opinion , is that , kept around 1200 Fps, ( perfect for my new Special, and for the power lever i like in my 4' 29-2) They would be great, for deer, but a but might not penetrate on a big Elk. But for my 7.5 inch Bisley, with a 7.5 inch barrel, pushing them over 1400, and my Marlin carbine, i would be wise to shoot something solid with out the HP! Am, i on the right track guy,s ? ...tj
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Post by Encore64 on Jun 7, 2020 9:44:52 GMT -5
For penetration and expansion, I'd go with the heavier HPs. The 250 grn 41 Magnum probably just fine. On 44 Caliber, I'd go heavier so the solid part of the bullet would continue to push forward.
Just my experience...
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Post by sixshot on Jun 7, 2020 14:50:20 GMT -5
I've found in the last 6=7 years that my cast HP's in 41,44 & 45 are working great on deer size game & giving me complete penetration most times. Only 2-3 times have I had a bullet not exit. Even those went almost lengthways through the deer. Moving up to elk is a whole new ball game, not saying a HP won't work but because you can't pick the perfect shot I wouldn't suggest a HP. I've taken 14 elk with revolvers & they have thick hide & to me at least are very tough animals. I would use solids so I knew I was getting maximum penetration & most likely some expansion as well, especially at 1,400 fps as you mentioned. Unless you are using an extremely hard but (I don't) they you should get some expansion & with a good quality Keith style or LBT style bullet elk can be taken cleanly with the 41, 44 or 45 with decent hits. Just my opinion but I would stay away from the HP's unless going to the 385 HP in 480 caliber, that bullet will cleanly take any elk. It went clear through my bull moose & many others have used it on very large game. Good luck on your hunt! One last thought I might mention. The Miha 275 gr HP in 45 caliber using the medium HP pins might be a bullet worth trying on elk, that bullet is heavy & the smaller HP is going to delay expansion some. The one thing you wouldn't want to do is over drive it. That is, don't run it so fast that you get expansion too fast & lose penetration, penetration trumps expansion on an elk. I would use my 70/30 alloy or maybe 80/20 alloy at 1200-1300 fps Try 4 water jugs with a quart of fine sawdust added to each & soaked overnight. Then try the same test with a solid.
Dick
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tj3006
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,958
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Post by tj3006 on Jun 7, 2020 16:31:26 GMT -5
Thanks Dick ! I don,t plan Using a handgun on Elk This year, But on Big Eastern Oregon mule deer i just might ! I would at this point need to limit myself to about 30 yards, I have a place in mind were i can sit about 30 yards from a game trail on one side of me and a clear cut on the other, my old savage 99 for the clearcut and my .41 loaded with 250 grain Gt hollow points over 9.2 grains of uniqe , for the trail, but such places might look a bunch different this year than last ! And if I don,t draw my 1st choice unit, it will mean open country hunting near Hepner, Probably my old .257 Roberts ! ...tj
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Post by taffin on Jun 7, 2020 17:03:35 GMT -5
Hollow points on really tough stuff: I have taken two huge feral pigs using the Keith Heavy .44 Special load hollowpoint version with a muzzle velocity of 1200 ft./s. On a 500+ pound feral pig, broadside shot, total penetration in one side and out the other. On his bigger brother 650+ pounds in one side and found perfectly mushroomed under the hide on the off-side. I have taken three bison with solid bullets, .480, .45 Colt, and .454. Total penetration on broadside shots.
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Post by bushog on Jun 7, 2020 17:16:23 GMT -5
Dick brings up a good point on the size of the hollowpoint and it goes hand-in-hand with what encore said about the solid part of the bullet.
The MP molds generally come with several different sized pins so you can pick the size cavity you get.
There is a cup pin that gives just that, a cupped tip.
No experience with that one on an animal here but I'm guessing it would initiate some expansion while retaining the weight needed for penetration.
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Post by Encore64 on Jun 7, 2020 17:35:51 GMT -5
I did a lot of testing with different HP Cast Bullets. Mostly offerings from GT Bullets.
Quickly learned the long, Rounded Nose HP Bullets do much better penetrating than the HP SWCs.
At the bottom of the HP Cavity, the walls are much thicker than those on the SWC.
It just gave a lot more uniform expansion and penetration than the SWC. Suppose "Control" of expansion is the correct term.
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Post by x101airborne on Jun 8, 2020 5:42:09 GMT -5
Hollow points on really tough stuff: I have taken two huge feral pigs using the Keith Heavy .44 Special load hollowpoint version with a muzzle velocity of 1200 ft./s. On a 500+ pound feral pig, broadside shot, total penetration in one side and out the other. On his bigger brother 650+ pounds in one side and found perfectly mushroomed under the hide on the off-side. I have taken three bison with solid bullets, .480, .45 Colt, and .454. Total penetration on broadside shots. 500 and 650 pound wild hogs? No thank you. I will keep my fuzzy bunny tail right here where a 300 pounder is a trophy and a 400 pounder is a monster. Out of over a thousand hogs down by my hand alone only one ever tipped a 300 pound scale. My father has killed a 450 pounder and an Army buddy killed a 400 pounder on our place but it has never been my luck. Would be tons of fun with a handgun though! Great shooting Sir!
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Post by blackmamba on Jun 27, 2020 0:19:53 GMT -5
Does anyone know what a max load would be for 2400 under the GT 250 WFN HP in a 41 mag Blackhawk? And what would the velocity be in a 4⅝ barrel?
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Post by bushog on Jun 27, 2020 7:26:47 GMT -5
I always shy away from "max load" questions.
My best source for info like that is my subscription to Load Data. They have all the load data from all the Handloader Magazine as well as most of the published reloading manuals (including the Lyman Cast Bullet manual)and more.
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Post by blackmamba on Jun 27, 2020 10:14:06 GMT -5
I'm only interested in the max load to know what the top end is, not to exceed. I don't plan to load that hot, just wanted to know the boundary.
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Post by wheelguns on Jun 27, 2020 10:35:20 GMT -5
I couldn’t find any loads for a 250gn, but the max for a 240 gn cast was 18.5 of 2400. It seems that the data is all over the place. This could be from different cast bullet designs. For example, my lyman cast bullet manual shows a max load of 16.2 gns of 2400 with a 220 gn cast bullet. This seems low to me, but it could be a long bullet that takes up alot of case capacity. Brian Pearce in an article that I have claims his favorite load for a blackhawk is 19.0 gns of 2400 with a 220 gn bullet. So, really , the only thing to do is to start low and work up, while considering the bullet design and gun to be used. Personally, my blackhawk likes a 230 gn mp- hammer on top of 16.5 gns of 2400. I more often than not, shoot 9.0 gns of unique under the same bullet, but I am only hunting whitetails . The 18.5 gn load came from loaddata.com.
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Post by blackmamba on Jun 27, 2020 20:18:20 GMT -5
The seating depth definitely makes a huge difference. The GT 250 is long, but more than half of the bullet is ahead of the crimp groove, so it loads like a shorter, lighter bullet. I looked in an old volume of Barnes' Cartridges of the World and found a load of 24 grains of 2400 under a 240 gr bullet, which seems WAAAYY too hot, I think it's a misprint. That's at least 4 grains more than I've ever seen anywhere else. I think 18 grains sounds about right, but I won't load it that hot. I'm gonna try 15.0, 15.5 and 16.0 grains and pick the most accurate one. I haven't found a lot of difference in killing power between 1050 fps and 1150 fps with the same bullet, but the more accurate one could make a difference.
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Post by sixshot on Jun 27, 2020 21:42:53 GMT -5
One guy loads 19.0 grs & calls it maximum, the next guy loads 20.0 grs & calls it maximum, so who's right? Maximum is like roping the wind, even with the same weight bullets. Seating depth changes everything, as does brass, primers, etc. Forget maximum if you want to be a shooter, work up from minimum until your groups start to tighten, relying on a 2-3 good reloading manuals. When those groups start to open you've hit your maximum & it shouldn't be above any of those reloading manuals. With the 41 magnum & 2400 powder you will hit that sweet spot somewhere around 16-17 grs using a standard LP primer, DONE! That's anywhere from a 210=250 gr cast bullet.
Dick
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Post by contender on Jun 28, 2020 8:18:12 GMT -5
"Forget maximum if you want to be a shooter, work up from minimum until your groups start to tighten, relying on a 2-3 good reloading manuals. When those groups start to open you've hit your maximum & it shouldn't be above any of those reloading manuals."
^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Long ago,, this was the way I learned to figure out my guns & loads. I almost never reached the maximum charge when I used this method. Accuracy is THE gauge to use,, as long as you stay within the several manuals.
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