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Post by 470evans on May 13, 2020 8:17:30 GMT -5
Do you notice a difference when shooting off bags if the gun rests on the barrel or the front of the frame?
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Post by Encore64 on May 13, 2020 8:24:59 GMT -5
Do you notice a difference when shooting off bags if the gun rests on the barrel or the front of the frame? Absolutely. Also, a very underrated accuracy issue is ERHs being in a bind. Especially as the barrel heats and cools.
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Post by bobwright on May 13, 2020 10:32:27 GMT -5
I never shoot off a rest. Mainly because most of the ranges I've shot on didn't have a real rigid bench to shoot from. And I always worried that my point of impact would shift between rest and non-rest shooting.
Bob Wright
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Post by oddshooter on May 13, 2020 10:52:27 GMT -5
OK, what is ERHs ? and how do they get in a bind?
Prescut
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Post by Encore64 on May 13, 2020 10:54:19 GMT -5
OK, what is ERHs ? and how do they get in a bind? Prescut Ejector Rod Housings...If not fitted properly, they are pulling on the barrel. As the barrel heats, the tension changes. Same basic issue of barrel rest changing.
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Post by bagdadjoe on May 13, 2020 10:59:40 GMT -5
Ejector rod housing... pressure from the weight of the gun pressing against them...would vary depending on if something solid is pressing against it, or a deadening support like a bag. When I use a rest, I rest the frame on the rest. Anything that puts stress on the barrel is going to affect it to some degree. Hard to keep consistency it the pressure on the barrel is changing. That's why barrels are "free floated". yeah...what Encore64 said... ;-)
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Post by willicd on May 13, 2020 11:11:08 GMT -5
I absolutely agree with what's been said so far and I think I can prove it (if someone will help me with pics), however, I'm sure an expert will be along shortly to wax eloquently as to why it isn't so.
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Post by bradshaw on May 13, 2020 11:29:54 GMT -5
Do you notice a difference when shooting off bags if the gun rests on the barrel or the front of the frame? ***** Single bagI call it the TRUNNION rest. It’s basically a barrel rest, but the revolver or pistol nestles junction of barrel & frame into bag. Works very well without a butt bag. Double bagBarrel or frond on front bag, heel of grip----or, heel of hands----on butt bag. POI (Point of Aim) and sight alignment conducted on butt bag. With heavy recoil, avoid pinching meat between butt and bag. PositionAdjust body to target, not sights. Face should be flat to sights, erect as possible, to avoid eye strain and to sight through center of glasses Dry fireEstablish repeatability of position through dry fire. Dry fire 3 to 5 “shots” before live fire. Base final position adjustments on SQUEEZE & FOLLOW THROUGH. BreatheDon’t forget to breathe. Oxygen sharpens eyes & calms nerves. Train to squeeze at sharpest focus. Don’t overhold your air. Once your air is lost, the trigger control follows. The eye is the first organ to go into oxygen debt. The trigger finger is the second organ to go into oxygen debt. David Bradshaw
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Post by willicd on May 13, 2020 13:35:24 GMT -5
Well, I just did a little shooting with my Smith 17 and some Winchester superx I had in the pickup. The first hold was butt down on the rest with the gun totally free to do as it will. This of course was the least steady and produced a 1 1/2" group 2" above point of aim at 25yds. There was some stringing evident and a flier. The next hold was with the frame pressed firmly into the rest. This was a rock steady hold and produced a slightly tighter group with one flyer but 2" above and 1" left of the aiming point. The last group was shot with just the tip of the barrel on the rest. This was also a very steady and produced a very round 1" group just above the point of aim without any fliers. Though this experiment didn't play out exactly as I thought it would, it did prove that the hold or rest can have a drastic effect on accuracy AND point of impact. The only explanation I can figure for the nice round group with the tip of the barrel resting on the rest is harmonics. I would also expect the results to be more dramatic as barrel length and/or bore diameter increase.
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Post by matt56 on May 13, 2020 16:49:45 GMT -5
I used to shoot off the frame in front of the trigger guard until I realized it was quickly tearing up my sandbags and then my leather rest.
Now I try to rest off the barrel and my stuff seems to last longer. Mostly I don’t shoot revolvers off a rest though unless I’m seriously testing for groups or shooting over a chrony. I’d say 90% of my shooting is freehand
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groo
.327 Meteor
I yet live!!!!
Posts: 855
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Post by groo on May 13, 2020 19:26:10 GMT -5
Groo here Place off hand on bag , cup shooting hand with off hand, [do not squeeze with off hand] shoot like one handed. If the gun kicks different from rested , 2 hand, one hand, it will hit in a different place. All should be the same for group shooting or long range. PS SD shooting is very close, target is large, and grouping unimportant. Only hits matter.
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Post by whitworth on May 13, 2020 23:10:09 GMT -5
In my experience there is no difference. One must always maintain a consistent grip tension and the POI should be the same irrespective of the rest.
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Post by contender on May 14, 2020 7:59:55 GMT -5
The idea of using a rest is to stabilize the shooting platform,, and reduce movement. Interference with the physics,, can cause different points of impact. As noted above,,,, a consistent grip both in tension & placement, along with sight alignment, and trigger control all are the important factors. I, like some others,, prefer to place a front bag on a solid rest, cradling the forward part of the frame, with maybe a small part of the barrel as well. And a rear bag under my hands or butt depending upon the grip size on the handgun. And as noted,, the best body position is to have things elevated enough to where you are not placing your body in an awkward position. This helps keep sight alignment the same. And of course,, the bench set-up must be solid as well.
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Post by willicd on May 14, 2020 9:16:51 GMT -5
In my experience there is no difference. One must always maintain a consistent grip tension and the POI should be the same irrespective of the rest. I respectfully disagree. If you would, please shoot us some groups with just the butt of the gun rested, the frame of the gun rested, and the end of the barrel rested, and report back. I think you'll find at least 2 very different groups.
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Post by Encore64 on May 14, 2020 9:50:36 GMT -5
Well, Max simply posted "in my experience." I'll add that he has a lot of experience.
What works for one, may or may not work for another.
These threads are more informative to just learn from others and work out your own techniques.
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