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Post by x101airborne on May 1, 2020 14:01:08 GMT -5
Im having some issues loading 45 ACP ammo with SWC style bullets and was wondering if yall have any suggestions.
I am trying (mainly) the 45-270 SAA (255 grains in my alloy) bullet in 45 ACP cases. I am not trying to push it real hard, if I get 800 fps, I will call that good. My goal here is a 45 ACP case loading that will never feed in a semi auto. Problem is, by the time I get the bullet pushed in far enough to chamber without being figuratively hammered in the cylinder, the case bulges and I am still a no go at this station. I could drop back to the Lee 255 RF, but then it would probably feed in a semi auto. I know because I have used this bullet in modified Glocks with Blue Dot.
Anyone have experience with loading the ACP case for Ruger Blackhawks? BTW.... a .4515 bullet will slip through the throats with gentle pressure from a pencil. I have been sizing to .452.
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weiler
.30 Stingray
Posts: 423
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Post by weiler on May 1, 2020 14:21:09 GMT -5
actually was just loading some 452460’s this afternoon. they are seated to book col at 1.160”. all once fired winchester brass and has worked well
I had loaded some commercial 200 gr HG68 style bullets and would typically load those with ~.03 of the front band exposed (seemed to help feeding in my 1911). occasionally those would chamber a bit tight BUT that was mixed brass and could have some case length variance.
how much of the front band is exposed?
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Post by leadhound on May 1, 2020 14:44:32 GMT -5
Sounds like your throats are too small, you should be able to let it hang all the way out of the case and still chamber in a revolver cylinder. If your bullet wont pass through sized to .452 that would be my suspect.
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Post by usafa71 on May 1, 2020 15:14:28 GMT -5
I think your problem is with the bullet/ case combination. The 270 gr SSA bullet is very heavy for the 45ACP, and as a SWC, it is very long. The 45ACP case, designed for bullets around 230 gr, has a short section to hold the bullet before you get to the web of the case, which is obviously thicker. When a bullet that long is seated in a case that short, to fit the short ACP chamber, the bullet intrudes on the case web, which makes that portion of the case expand and not fit the chamber. If you seat the bullet long enough to not intrude on the web, then the Overall Length is too long for the chamber. I think you would do better with a shorter, ie lighter bullet. Montana Bullet Works makes a few SWCs in lighter weights that would be more conducive to use in the 45 convertible. They make a nice nearly wadcutter profile Bullet around 250 gr with a wide nose, which should work in the ACP case.
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Post by bradshaw on May 1, 2020 15:17:43 GMT -5
If your lead bullet binds in the exit hole (throat) when you chamber a round, it doesn’t matter whether it’s .45 ACP or .45 Colt. The square head spacing shoulder at the front of the ACP chamber bites the bullet but the tapered lead in the .45 Colt chamber may bite as well. With POWER COAT you may seat the bullet to whatever COL you desire----as long as the cartridge chambers without effort.
If the bullet is a hair firm in the exit hole, it’s not a pressure problem. Whereas, a chamber which pinches the case against bullet spikes pressure.
Sounds as though your problem is slightly tight chamber exit holes----tight for the bullet----preventing shallow seating (long COL). Yet another argument in favor of powder coat.
Footnote: My .45 ACP is loaded for complete interchangeability between auto & sixgun. David Bradshaw
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Post by renton10x on May 1, 2020 23:09:29 GMT -5
I just loaded up 100 rounds for my Ruger convertible Bisley today. I use an RCBS sizing die and was loading 255 grain SWCs made by a local caster named Aardvark Bullets - they are sized to .452. No case bulging issues. My Ruger Cylinders have been reamed to .4525 and my finished rounds drop right in, no problem. With these cylinders, you have to seat the bullets deeply - all the way to the end of the driving band, well past the crimp goose. You probably already know that.
BTW, Dale53 and I are getting excellent accuracy with the H&G 68 style 200 grain bullets seated deeply. Try 4.0 or so of Bullseye and you will get small groups.
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Post by buckelliott on May 1, 2020 23:20:42 GMT -5
Forgive me, but Why are. We trying to POUND a bastaedized ACP load into a single actin cylinder ..? In this modern age, with the availability of cases, why spend so much effort on avwoids-colt, noted of concentrating on a legitimate thotoughbred.?
Yes, it Can be done, and has Been done, but that doesn't make it right, or even ok..
Solid geometry is an unforgiving science. Don't keep trying to buxk the numbers...
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Post by x101airborne on May 2, 2020 10:56:45 GMT -5
Forgive me, but Why are. We trying to POUND a bastaedized ACP load into a single actin cylinder ..? In this modern age, with the availability of cases, why spend so much effort on avwoids-colt, noted of concentrating on a legitimate thotoughbred.? Yes, it Can be done, and has Been done, but that doesn't make it right, or even ok.. Solid geometry is an unforgiving science. Don't keep trying to buxk the numbers... Providing I am understanding what you are trying to say.... 1. I don't want to have to POUND anything. That's why I am asking for help. 2. I have buckets full of 45 ACP cases and I want to use them instead of buying others. 3. The weapon was made for it, so I think it is right and ok. 4. If the geometry needs fixing to make it work, then it needs fixing. Im not trying to "buxk" anything. On top of that, the sights are meant to loosely correlate to a certain weight of bullet. Hence, the heavy bullet in the ACP case.
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Post by x101airborne on May 2, 2020 11:00:05 GMT -5
usafa, Bradshaw and others, thank you for your input. This is from a "fat" NOE mould, so that could be part of my problem from the get go. I do have a RCBS version of another 45 colt bullet so I may cast a few of those up and see how they turn out.
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Post by x101airborne on May 2, 2020 11:02:12 GMT -5
Renton, I will give it a go and see how my sights line up. If I cannot adjust the sights for the load then it may not work for me.
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gregs
.30 Stingray
Posts: 454
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Post by gregs on May 2, 2020 11:17:00 GMT -5
There is a mold to load a 250 SWC into 45 ACP brass kinda like MiHec's Ruger Only 325 that have a longer nose in front of the crimp groove. I know MiHec makes a 230 or 240 wt SWC and I believe Lyman made the heavy mold. I think 6 shot has one of those molds or more knowledge about it. www.mp-molds.com/product/10873/
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Post by x101airborne on May 2, 2020 11:25:07 GMT -5
Thanks gregs!
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dhd
.327 Meteor
Posts: 941
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Post by dhd on May 2, 2020 12:06:00 GMT -5
I'm sure you've figured already that the bulge is from the bullet being seated deeply into a case not really designed for it. When you're doing this, the case is also sizing down the base some I suspect. I'm not so sure your experiment will be very successful, but that's how I learn stuff. Even when some of my experiments are successful they aren't worth the trouble I went through, but I still learned something. I'd try a bullet without a long bearing surface that won't get into the web of the case. You mentioned you have another mold?
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gcf
.30 Stingray
South Texas
Posts: 268
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Post by gcf on May 2, 2020 13:44:21 GMT -5
Sounds like throats too tight - for .452 sized bullets. Might consider reaming to .4525 - .453, especially if you like to shoot cast. An alternative, might be to size .451 - .4515. I'm wondering if, with a correct snug slip fit, you could load those bullets longer, & taper crimp below the lube groove. In theory, this would lower pressure (or make room for more powder), & eliminate case bulging. In the ,45 Colt cyl of my convertible, I shoot these measuring .4525 - in .453 throats. Haven't tried 'em in the ACP cyl yet... www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=56
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Post by boolitdesigner on May 2, 2020 14:04:16 GMT -5
Ignore most all the above............... Blackhawk 45 ACP cylinders are a special case on loading and that's a fact. No bullet sized anywhere over 0.452" will have a devil of a time fitting in the cylinder. Overly long bullets that you're trying will all bulge the case and not chamber. For a heavy bullet, you are basically limited to about 250 to 255 grains and that depends on which one you try. With that being said, try a 0.4515" to 0.452" bullet with the front driving band really really close (about 0.010") to the case mouth for seating depth.... then taper crimp it so it fits the cylinder with less than a firm push. These 45 ACP cylinders generally shoot match grade groups when you do those things.... they are REALLY tightly spec'd. Once you understand how to load for them, they are not too bad, but NOTHING else out there that I know of is like it. Enjoy!!!!!
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