WLP PRIMERS AND UNIQUE?

[contender]

I, like so many above have been using Win WLP primers as well as the Win WSP primers under Unique for a long time with zero issues.

Load & shoot with confidence.

[gsp7]

Ive used WW primers alot with unique, works great. The fun store was out last time, so I got a brick of cci

[lockhart]

I bought a thousand of the Winchester LP primers back when Obama was President. Reason? They were all I could find. I didn't use them until I ran out of my usual LP primers, CCI. I found the Winchesters to be just fine with fast powders, like Unique,etc. I did find that they seem to be a tighter fit in the pocket than other brands. I shoot IHMSA silhouette at CTSA, in New Braunfels, Texas and 99% were shot through my Ruger SuperBlackhawk 10.5" stainless, my load being 20 grains of Alliant 2400 and the RCBS cast bullet, which comes out of my mold at 255 grains. I size them at .431 and they shoot very well with the Winchester primers. I was concerned when I saw that they were for "standard or magnum" loads, but they perform well in either. Sorry for being so long winded.

P.S.  
     The RCBS mold I use is the silhouette mold.  Supposed to cast at 245 grains, but out of wheel weights, they drop
     at 255 grains and I use my own lube made from Glenn Fraxell's recipe.  Hope I spelled his name right!

[bula]

Has anyone rated primers by.. even the criteria needs some discussion. I do recall reading in an article that the author of the article thought the CCI300 was "hotter" than the WLP. I do not know this to be true myself but since have treated it as such. Am only working with, talking of, medium to big bore straight wall cartridges. 

[Cholla]

I've gone through a case, that's 5,000 WLP's, using them in my .44 Special's and 45 Colt's. Powder most used were Unique, Power Pistol and a little 2400. Not a single problem.

[magman]

WLPs are all I use. Have used it with Unique, Universal, HS6, 2400, 296, and Blue Dot. Never a problem, even in cold and snowy WNY.

[bigtee]

I bought 5000 WLP’s when the big shortage hit, been using using them with everything, had no problems at all.

[bradshaw]

Mar 19, 2020 7:15:46 GMT -5 bula said:

It's been awhile since I've seen an article on primers. Would like to see primers listed in order like powder burn rate charts. 

*****

Not sure how you’d establish a burn rate chart on provers. It may be more about the amount of compound in the pellet than burn, or VOD (Velocity of Detonation). As gets mentioned, what set it off matters big time. This ism where mechanics of the individual gun come into play. Marginal mechanicals in the gun compromise consistency of a uniform primers. Rimfire primers are the biggest headache for a manufacturer, as the wet compound must be distributed evenly throughout the hollow rim. Which is why we experience misfires when everything else seems right, and why some rimfires use a dual firing pin. Greater attention is paid to top tournament ammo than the lower price spread.

Roy Weatherby wanted a hotter primer to kick slow powders in his voluminous magnums; Federal answered with the #215.

I’ve had this discussion with John Linebaugh. John maintains a mag primer can drive pressure. There is a lot at play. Load density, volume, and bullet weight are just three factors. Both John and I have pushed things a bit, each in our own way and, let me affirm, not casually. Bench rest and other match shooters want consistency in components and repeatable performance from their ammunition. Everyone wants that, but competitors demand a specific result.

To try to answer for everyone, I would have to close my mind to input from others. Once in a while I glimpse that mentality, see there is nothing to learn from it, and move on. As reloading manuals emphasize, BALLISTICS is a cocktail. Each adjustment of ingredients affects product. A reloader who would advance to the top ranks in marksmanship makes an adjustment now & then.
David Bradshaw

[45MAN]

WENT OUT THIS MORNING (3/20/20) AND SHOT MY S&W 625 45 COLT POWER PORT WITH 258gr PC'ed KEITH BULLETS I GOT FROM SIXSHOT, LOADED OVER 9.5grs OF UNIQUE IN STARLINE CASES. I HAD SOME LOADED UP WITH FEDERAL 150's AND A NEW BATCH WITH WLP's. BOTH WERE ACCURATE BUT I NOTICED THAT AT 70 - 75 YARDS ON A 6 INCH SWINGER THE WLP's WERE HITTING TO POI WHILE THE 150's WERE HITTING BELOW POI. I "THINK" THAT MAY MEAN THAT THE WLP LOADS WERE GOING FASTER, AM I RIGHT OR WRONG?

[bradshaw]

Mar 20, 2020 15:46:41 GMT -5 45MAN said:

WENT OUT THIS MORNING (3/20/20) AND SHOT MY S&W 625 45 COLT POWER PORT WITH 258gr PC'ed KEITH BULLETS I GOT FROM SIXSHOT, LOADED OVER 9.5grs OF UNIQUE IN STARLINE CASES. I HAD SOME LOADED UP WITH FEDERAL 150's AND A NEW BATCH WITH WLP's. BOTH WERE ACCURATE BUT I NOTICED THAT AT 70 - 75 YARDS ON A 6 INCH SWINGER THE WLP's WERE HITTING TO POI WHILE THE 150's WERE HITTING BELOW POI. I "THINK" THAT MAY MEAN THAT THE WLP LOADS WERE GOING FASTER, AM I RIGHT OR WRONG?

*****

Rey.... good question, which might take a chronograph to answer. First, by “hitting to POI” and “hitting below POI,” I think you mean hitting POA----Point of Aim.

Second, striking a 6-inch gong @ 70-75 yards indicates marksmanship. Thus, you see a Point of Impact variance based on same load with different primers. It is possible the low shots represent FASTER BARREL TIME. A theory I don’t buy without chronograph proof. Why? Because I would think the WLP slightly hotter than the FC 150.

Unique causes another reservation against trusting theory without proof. The longer the barrel time, the higher the muzzle lifts before bullet exit. Now, if some drag racing phenomenon is at work----a faster car with lower mph beats the other car across the finish line----it would be better if Ronnie Wells or Lee Martins provides an explanation. (To compare apples to apples, we would measure barrel time, since a bullet does not accelerate after departing muzzle.

If the same experiment repeats, whip out the chronograph.
David Bradshaw

[wildcatter]

I use these WLP primers for both Magnum/Ruger Only 340 grain 45 colt loads with both H-110 or 2400. At the same time I use them with my daily 250 grain load and WW-231,I also use them with 185 gr., 200 gr. lead and jackets and 230 gr. 45 ACP rounds. Like Dick they are probably my most used LPP.

As for the change of POA difference, I would think that had more to do with being, loaded with a different cromp, different powder measure setup, different case lot, or different lot of powder, or something before I would think it was just a different primer issue? 

I have tested some different loads in 357 and 45 Colt Ruger only, using heavy H-110 loads with a chronograph using both CCI and the WLP either or primers, I saw bigger variations in ES, than I did a velocity difference in the strings when testing "who's yer daddy now" loads. JME

[wildcatter]

Mar 19, 2020 11:18:30 GMT -5 bula said:

Has anyone rated primers by.. even the criteria needs some discussion. I do recall reading in an article that the author of the article thought the CCI300 was "hotter" than the WLP. I do not know this to be true myself but since have treated it as such. Am only working with, talking of, medium to big bore straight wall cartridges. 

Long time ago I got in my head heat mattered the most, but over the years, I've found consistency is a better art to concentrate on. Most loads can be worked up with a certain primer and once that load is as good as it gets, that's when I fiddle different primers. What I've found is some may make a difference in Extreme spread, but no real difference in av. velocity, slight maybe but for no rhyme or reason, sometimes what's considered magnum may be more consistent, some loads it may be a standard primer. 

One way I used to test there power was with a primed rifle case, even if it is a pistol primer, it will fit and seal, chamber it in the rifle for the case you chose, I always did this in a rifle barrel. Then take a cleaning rod with the brass jag on it, and holding it level in a cradle with the muzzle in safe direction fire it. Record how much length is sticking out of the barrel. I would do 3 to 5 to get an average. Then test your next primer. Nit scientific, but I know I was surprised when I did this with Federal 215 M's, and other LRP's. 

But like I said already in my other post, I've seen CCI mags do worse in a lot of heavy H-110 loads for accuracy and ES than I've seen with WLP primers, then I've tried everything with some loads and the CCI mag primer was the magic with that bullet and load. 

I've learned to work up a load with one primer, then try 1/2grn.  hotter, and 1/2 grn. colder, and the same charge with different primers to tweak all I can from a given good load to make it great. But a very good crimp is always important.

[45MAN]

DAVID: MY MISTAKE, MY "POI" SHUD HAVE BEEN "POA". MY THOUGHTS WERE THAT BY 70 - 75 YARDS, WITH A KEITH STYLE BULLET, TRAVELLING BETWEEN 1000 - 1100fps, THE SLOWER BULLET WOULD DROP MORE. I WILL SAVE A FEW OF THE LOADS PRIMED WITH FEDERAL 150's TO COMPARE CHRONOGRAPH WITH THE WLP LOADS, BUT FOR NOW I AM GOING TO BE USING WLP's FOR THIS 9.5grs OF UNIQUE LOAD.

[bradshaw]

Mar 21, 2020 6:08:29 GMT -5 45MAN said:

DAVID: MY MISTAKE, MY "POI" SHUD HAVE BEEN "POA". MY THOUGHTS WERE THAT BY 70 - 75 YARDS, WITH A KEITH STYLE BULLET, TRAVELLING BETWEEN 1000 - 1100fps, THE SLOWER BULLET WOULD DROP MORE. I WILL SAVE A FEW OF THE LOADS PRIMED WITH FEDERAL 150's TO COMPARE CHRONOGRAPH WITH THE WLP LOADS, BUT FOR NOW I AM GOING TO BE USING WLP's FOR THIS 9.5grs OF UNIQUE LOAD.

*****

Reckon you missed mistake. Catch myself writing in error, as in “with,” when I meant “without.” Et cetera. Main thing is to sort out the why one load prints lower----with just a change in primer. If it is possible to simultaneously CHRONOGRAPH & TARGET, you may find a direct correlation between velocity and POI----with the slower shorts higher. Of course, at long range, the same bullet traveling slower has to drop more.

Please keep us informed, even if you don’t find a graphic conclusion.
David Bradshaw