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Post by bradshaw on Mar 25, 2020 21:40:41 GMT -5
FlyingScot.... read carefully your own thoughts. Ruminate all you want, a revolver bought for performance must perform. I view guns as life-extensions, a decision on what to carry made by performance over the tasks it must serve. To recognize you’re not up to a 100 yard shot on game is an honorable admission. 100 yards under field conditions makes for a very long shot. Knowing all the while, no two shots at game are exactly alike. Confidence needs to be realistic, not an act of ego.
The flat trajectory of the .454 Casull carries a degree of forgiveness not available in bigger bores. Much elk hunting involves shots long for a sixgun. To limit the distance at which you make a shot on game gives you the powerful advantage of realism. The other part of that realism is, what cartridge will you choose? Full house .454 Casull loads ramp 60,000+ psi, with concussion to match. I would not shoot such loads without hearing protection. which means I would not track a whitetail or elk with such loads. I tried tracking with electronic muffs; it doesn’t work. The noise is unbearable, the feeling claustrophobic. Ear plugs likewise, not to mention they won’t stay put. Muffs are fine to sit on stand, not for tracking.
The .454 Casull may be downloaded and DEEP SEATED and still be a powerhouse----with less concussion. Bigger bores may work with deep seating, depending on the bullet. Experiment may reveal loads which don’t rock you like a concussion grenade or the shrill blast of Composition 4.
Advice from experienced shooters is good. Yet I suspect you will have to live with your selection to learn whether you & the cartridge& the revolver were made for each other.
It is a huge step from the .45 ACP in a Smith & Wesson, and the .44 Magnum in a Dan Wesson, to larger bore cannons. Remember, the DWA is the pussycat of .44 Mag revolvers. The .44 Mag itself id the hub of the modern revolver wheel. Very high on the scale of intrinsic accuracy. Despite having been surpassed, a powerhouse in its own right.
If you quest is a trail to marksmanship, I’d be wary of shortcuts. David Bradshaw
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Post by taffin on Mar 25, 2020 23:47:12 GMT -5
I WOULD HAZARD AN EDUCATED GUESS THAT THE .44 MAGNUM WILL HANDLE 99.9% OF ANYTHING WE NEED OR WANT TO DO WITH A SIXGUN.
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bigtee
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 71
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Post by bigtee on Mar 26, 2020 8:00:45 GMT -5
I WOULD HAZARD AN EDUCATED GUESS THAT THE .44 MAGNUM WILL HANDLE 99.9% OF ANYTHING WE NEED OR WANT TO DO WITH A SIXGUN. I strongly agree with this. I think anything I would ever encounter would be well taken care of by a 44 Magnum.
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Post by potatojudge on Mar 26, 2020 10:58:10 GMT -5
I think the discussion, at least in the early days of 44 mag vs Ruger only 45 Colt, was what *can* we do, not what do we *need* to do.
After decades of proven performance and cartridge development, tons of factory and custom choices, I think it's safe to step back and address need and economy. As stated, 44 mag is nearly always all you need, and the economy of components and wear and tear on the body, to me at least, makes 44 mag the go-to choice. Bonus: the 44 Special does most of what a 44 mag will do, shares common components, and fits in sleek Ruger and Freedom Arms smaller frames.
So where to go after the 44? To the range I guess. If you're looking for appreciably more than what you get out of a 44 mag revolver then you're looking for extended range, not horsepower, and for that you'll benefit from a scoped single shot pistol in an appropriate bottle neck cartridge.
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Post by whitworth on Mar 26, 2020 11:13:19 GMT -5
I WOULD HAZARD AN EDUCATED GUESS THAT THE .44 MAGNUM WILL HANDLE 99.9% OF ANYTHING WE NEED OR WANT TO DO WITH A SIXGUN. I strongly agree with this. I think anything I would ever encounter would be well taken care of by a 44 Magnum. I don't think need plays into this! What fun would that be...
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Post by FlyingScot on Mar 26, 2020 16:35:37 GMT -5
I'm probably doing myself a disservice trying to boil this down into one gun purchase. I think what I should probably do is get a stout .45c or .454, shoot the hell out of it, and see if it leaves me still wanting to go bigger. If I am my wallet is lucky, that will scratch the itch and I'll have my hunting revolver. If not, it will be good practice for working myself up to one of the really big bores.
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Post by FlyingScot on Mar 26, 2020 17:08:12 GMT -5
Also, since you're talking about playing around a lot with handloading, you may want to price components. 500 Linebaugh bullets are pretty expensive! This was a bit of a surprise to me, I wasn't expecting there to be quite as much of a premium as there is on cast bullets in the .475"+ diameters. Not a deal breaker since this wouldn't be a hundreds-of-rounds-a-month gun, but still. And since I'm not (yet) to the point of casting my own, there seems to be waaaaaay more shape variety at each weight for the .45 bores. Beartooth has eleven .45 bullets choose from at 300+ gr. There's six of any weight at .475" (and one is a duplicate without a gas check), and three for the .50. If you're being practical, the JRH has a lot of advantages! Frankly the variety and price of bullets might be enough to sway me if I intended to shoot the thing. One downside: My JRH is made by JRH and has a very slightly reduced rim. So, i have to remove a couple thou-diameter from my 500Mag brass to make it fit, after cutting to length. (just an obscure fact for someone shopping) That's only if you get one made in a FA, IIRC. Otherwise if you buy a factory BFR you don't have to turn the rims down and can shoot 500 S&W brass without a hitch after trimming down to the proper case length. I also second Max, he turned me on to the 500JRH years ago and it's hands down the most fun to shoot with everything mild to wild and I've never had an issue finding bullets for it. Kind of the opposite as above, I was equally surprised at how little of a cost jump it was from the .475" to the .500" projectiles. I need a .50 cal pistol like I need another hole in the head, but (disclaimer, not having shot one) the JRH seems to be remarkably flexible, as happy on the 900 fps end of the scale as it is doing its best to give you carpal tunnel injuries. FlyingScot.... read carefully your own thoughts. Ruminate all you want, a revolver bought for performance must perform. I view guns as life-extensions, a decision on what to carry made by performance over the tasks it must serve. To recognize you’re not up to a 100 yard shot on game is an honorable admission. 100 yards under field conditions makes for a very long shot. Knowing all the while, no two shots at game are exactly alike. Confidence needs to be realistic, not an act of ego. The flat trajectory of the .454 Casull carries a degree of forgiveness not available in bigger bores. Much elk hunting involves shots long for a sixgun. To limit the distance at which you make a shot on game gives you the powerful advantage of realism. The other part of that realism is, what cartridge will you choose? Full house .454 Casull loads ramp 60,000+ psi, with concussion to match. I would not shoot such loads without hearing protection. which means I would not track a whitetail or elk with such loads. I tried tracking with electronic muffs; it doesn’t work. The noise is unbearable, the feeling claustrophobic. Ear plugs likewise, not to mention they won’t stay put. Muffs are fine to sit on stand, not for tracking. The .454 Casull may be downloaded and DEEP SEATED and still be a powerhouse----with less concussion. Bigger bores may work with deep seating, depending on the bullet. Experiment may reveal loads which don’t rock you like a concussion grenade or the shrill blast of Composition 4. Advice from experienced shooters is good. Yet I suspect you will have to live with your selection to learn whether you & the cartridge& the revolver were made for each other. It is a huge step from the .45 ACP in a Smith & Wesson, and the .44 Magnum in a Dan Wesson, to larger bore cannons. Remember, the DWA is the pussycat of .44 Mag revolvers. The .44 Mag itself id the hub of the modern revolver wheel. Very high on the scale of intrinsic accuracy. Despite having been surpassed, a powerhouse in its own right. If you quest is a trail to marksmanship, I’d be wary of shortcuts. David Bradshaw Not trying to take any shortcuts at all. Only mentioned my time shooting/handloading the .44 to give a scope of my experience. I do appreciate the caution, the DW is certainly a chunk of weight to soak up recoil, and my USPSA handholds were made with barely making major PF in mind, not finding the limits of the Smight N-frame! I will say though that I have heard some distaste for the Casull when shooting less than warm loads, partly due to the case volume and also being stuck using the small rifle primer format and having difficulty completely lighting mild charges. I suppose the answer is to just use .45c brass when not rolling hunting/recoil practice loads, but since that's likely to be very much the minority of what I'd shoot through it, that brings in the well-beaten dead horse about running a large volume of .45c through .454 chambers. I really wish MR made a .45 Colt BFR as a regular production item! I think the discussion, at least in the early days of 44 mag vs Ruger only 45 Colt, was what *can* we do, not what do we *need* to do. After decades of proven performance and cartridge development, tons of factory and custom choices, I think it's safe to step back and address need and economy. As stated, 44 mag is nearly always all you need, and the economy of components and wear and tear on the body, to me at least, makes 44 mag the go-to choice. Bonus: the 44 Special does most of what a 44 mag will do, shares common components, and fits in sleek Ruger and Freedom Arms smaller frames. So where to go after the 44? To the range I guess. If you're looking for appreciably more than what you get out of a 44 mag revolver then you're looking for extended range, not horsepower, and for that you'll benefit from a scoped single shot pistol in an appropriate bottle neck cartridge. I'm sure that day will come soon enough! I hung out at the rifle and pistol club my dad belonged to as a kid, and one of the regulars demonstrated what could be done with just a contender and a .22 hornet barrel. Remarkable shooting from a remarkable marksman. I strongly agree with this. I think anything I would ever encounter would be well taken care of by a 44 Magnum. I don't think need plays into this! What fun would that be... Hah, if need played into this, I'd pull the G40 I bought to dip my toes in 10mm out, load some heavy XTPs for it, and be set for anything I'm likely to shoot in the next decade. But the last time I went that long without buying a gun, I wasn't old enough for a driver's license either
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