Model 19 ?s

[tj3006]

Along with every other gun ever built I have a hankerin for a 6 inch model 19 blue steel pined and recessed and the partridge (sort of) style sight. there were 2 in town when a went looking saturday.  One was fairly priced but a bit to rough for my liking, the other was decent enough but way hi priced, better deals on gun broker.
   But this second 19 had about the nicest trigger i ever came across. Double and single.
   Got me to wondering if it is just to good.
   years ago i used to have a few Pythons maybe 3 of them, and maybe 5 diamondbacks.  Smooth and nice actions for sure. This smith was very comparable.
Used to be , i could tell when a colt main spring was about to break, the action would get even smoother, i could feel it. So i would drop a new spring in.
   Can this Smith have a like issue ? can they get to smooth ?  Never had a problem with a Smith like with the Colts, but some of you guys have seen a bunch more of them than i have.  I am thinking of making an offer of 300 less than the asking price on this old 19, opinions please !
                                                                                                                                                                    ...tj

[bradshaw]

First of all, the .357 Magnum overlays revolvers which represent a wide rpm range in pressure capability. The S&W Model 19 is a Cinderella .38 Special which visits the ball as a .357 Mag. Not intended for even one shot of true Rocks & Dynamite loads. The gun is compact, with a fiercely smooth double action. Good ones are 4-inch guns @ 100 yards, probably tighter if you can get rid of the human. The mainspring is the least of your worries. The old S&W leaf is a drop forging of incredible longevity. Despite modern steel and heart treatment, there is no way around its thin cylinder walls. Depending on what sort of gas ring is fitted, high pressure may pop the ring forward, binding the cylinder.between yoke and standing breech. This is usually cure by counterboring the front of the cylinder and swaging in anew gas ring. High pressure also known to spring a chamber, which cylinder must be replaced. These are just two main reasons the Model 19 a part-time .357, not a full time .357.

The Colt Python starts with a .41 frame. thicker cylinder, with offset bolt notches. Compared with a Model 19, the Python will take thousands of .357s. Both guns suffer a thin tenon wall on the barrel, which heavy helpings of .357 ammo enforce to crack.

The M-19 is a beautiful defense pistol, however much limited for hunting.
David Bradshaw

[tj3006]

I u understand the structural limitations of the k frame .357s my question may have been asked poorly asked. Is more about how smooth the action is. Can that be a sign of somthing about to go ring as I have experienced with. Colt
mainsprings ?

[bradshaw]

A rough Model 19? I wouldn’t touch it. As for stuff about to go bad.... usually, a part breaks unannounced. A mainspring which loses strength over time does so slowly, accelerating toward MISFIRE, and then LIGHT INDENT. Your symptom sounds like the STRAIN SCREW has loosened.

My experience with the drop forged mainsprings of S&W is phenomenal. Anything can break in the world of manmade things. Personal experience with S&W forged mainspring ranks them with Ruger coil mainsprings, together setting the bar for everyone else----factory and aftermarket.
David Bradshaw

[oddshooter]

Hey OP,

I think I know your fascination with the Model 19; I have quite a bit of that stuff myself.   The 19 gets shot a lot.
The 357 Magnum gets my vote for favorite plinker caliber.  It is just pure fun with just the right amount of bark and bite.   Huge variety.

The M19 just seems to fit my hand, my eye, and my tastes. The weight and balance is near perfect for me.  I love those triggers.
I shoot mine within limits; and I have never worried about a cracked barrel or frame. It is made to be shot, not saved for some imaginary time later. In 20 years, I don't know if I've fired a cylinder of 38's.   1200fps  is my usual top end for handloads and about 850fps for my cheap LAX factory ammo.  Handloads, scoped and benched, get 1" at 25 yards and under 4" at 100 yds. plus.   I have my Dan Wessons, Rugers, T/C's, and M28 / M27 when I want Rocks and Dynamite loads (1500fps). 

Prices vary quite a bit.  Rough ones are in the $500 variety and nice ones can go for $900 or so.  

If it ever breaks, that just means your second M19, the backup, gets put into play


Prescut

[tj3006]

I u understand the structural limitations of the k frame .357s my question may have been asked poorly asked. Is more about how smooth the action is. Can that be a sign of somthing about to go ring as I have experienced with. Colt
mainsprings ?

[tj3006]

In this case the action is not rough. To the contrary. It is so smooth it makes me thinks somthing might be wrong ! This would not be my 1st 19. I have owned a few sunnies and I think 2 4". This would be my 1st 6 inch.
I like the front sight. Sort of a semi partridge. And I think it makes a great gun for taking on a hunting trip.
I would load well below max. Say 160 grain cast semi wadcutter at 1100 ish.
And if I get a shot at a coyote badger or even I deer up close I should be able to do the job. And it would be lighter than my GP-100. !

[jd]

Model 19's can be very very smooth. I have one worked over by the old Davis Company of California and it is smoother than any Python I've ever tried. I could never understand why people would pay the much higher price for a Python when you could by a model 19 and for a small price have one of the master gunsmiths that exist work it over into something that is smoother and more accurate than a Python... But that's just me...

If there is anything wrong with the model 19 that you are talking about, it is most likely that someone backed off the hammer spring strain screw... It makes the double action pull lighter and feel smoother, but can compromise ignition... It's easily fixed by tightening the strain screw to fully tight...

[ezekiel38]

Parts for the 19 abound. I use Wolff mainsprings in my K frames. Your load is one that is habitually found in my 19. 12.5-12.8 grains of 2400 and a 158-160 SWC does 1162 in my 19 and close within a few fps in my Ruger MC/GP. Great load accuracy wise also, easy to shoot.

[tj3006]

2400 is just a great powder, i put together 1 round for my 454, witch i do not even have yet, but i just wanted to have 1 round to compare. I did a 260 grain SWC over 24 grains of 2400. i will make more when i have the gun !

[bradshaw]

“.... load is one that is habitually found in my 19. 12.5-12.8 grains of 2400 and a 158-160 SWC does 1162 in my 19 and close within a few fps in my Ruger MC/GP. Great load accuracy wise also, easy to shoot.”
----ezekiel38

*****

Hercules 2400 and Alliant 2400 are great powders in the Model 19, certainly with 125 to 158 grain jacketed. My standard swaged half-jacket 158 SWC HP in .357 Mag brass called for deep seating over 12/Hercules 2400, with CCI 550 mag primer. Same with cast, almost always deep seated over 2400; sometimes boosting charge, but never into Blackhawk territory. As you state, superb accuracy with long life for the Model 19.

Win 296 and Hodgdon 110 are great ball powder in a .357 of stouter build, but I just would not shoot same in the Model 19 and later M-66.
David Bradshaw

[bradshaw]

With all the lip talk about the Model 19, I had to pull out an old 4-inch. Tear it down, clean it. Lubed the last time with molydisufide chassis grease. Traditional chamber & bore swab with Hoppe’s #9. Reassembly this time with Shell Rotella 5-40 synthetic motor oil. This sixgun's been through knowing hands at Smith & Wesson two or three times. S&W dovetailed & drilled the front sight ramp to mold in red plastic insert. Replaced original black notch with white outline rear sight assembly. Somewhere along the line, S&W fit a new cylinder. Over time, parts replacement included the stop, gas ring, ejector rod & center pin, maybe one or two other things. May have had the barrel set back. Chamber-to-bore alignment (runout) averages .002-inch, or tighter. Lightning-smooth trigger.

Children were taught firearms safety & marksmanship with this revolver. The compact scale of the M-19 and its slick action allowed me to instruct double action as well as single action fire to children too young to hunt. To instruct balanced stance, breathing, sight alignment, sight picture, focus, SQUEEZE & FOLLOW THROUGH. To kindle straight shooting, not just straight shooting but down-to-blood-cells respect for firearms handling----which starts and stops with MUZZLE CONTROL.

INSTRUCTIONAL refinement combined with PERFORMANCE make the Model 19 a CLASSIC.
David Bradshaw

[Cholla]

I bought my very first K-frame last November; a rather ragamuffin Model 10-7 from Classic Firearms, followed by a 10-5 that had seen a bit more care, then a comely Model 15 that has deep, lustrous blue finish. All are 4" and all exhibit accuracy comme il faut of very well built revolvers, and have very crisp single action trigger pulls breaking at no more than 2.5 lbs. The double action pulls through weren't anything about which to get excited.

So I immersed myself in the inner workings of S&W's and found it reasonably easy to smooth and lighten DA trigger pull. Installing a 12 lb. rebound spring after polishing the sides and bottom of the rebound slide, the areas of the frame in which the rebound slide does its dance, the mating surfaces of the rebound slide and hammer, and the angled surface of the cylinder stop. An application of Rem Oil in all the right places and the result is DA pull weights of 8.0 - 9.0 lbs. in all three revolvers.

So, if you can find a right-priced 19 that has a rough pull, don't be too quick to discount it as action work isn't terribly difficult.

ETA- I've done quite a bit of load testing in these .38's and y current carry load is a 150-ish gr. cast SWCHP over 10.0 grs. of 2400 which nets 1050 fps. Since my evening jobs are pretty much cancelled due to this COVID mess, I'll have plenty of time in the evenings to test some of the Keith SWC's. It may be that .38 loads will get close enough to the lighter .357 loads to call them "good nuff", thus warranting the purchase of a less expensive K-frame .38 in lieu of a .357.

Cholla