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S&W 544
Jan 17, 2020 18:11:15 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by magman on Jan 17, 2020 18:11:15 GMT -5
Anybody have one? What are your thoughts on them? Heard rumors they were poorly built. Help appreciated.
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Post by Lee Martin on Jan 17, 2020 18:47:18 GMT -5
My dad owns one: S&W made just under 4,800 Wagon Train 544's. The throats are 0.427", the barrel is standard 0.429" (throats can be easily corrected). Rumor has it the frames weren't heat treated the same as the Magnum. But unless you're looking to lean on the .44-40, that doesn't matter. Wood presentation case and all, they haven't appreciated much in 34 years. I've seen a few sell for well shy of a grand. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time"
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Post by Lee Martin on Jan 17, 2020 18:48:51 GMT -5
...and the 5" barrel balances beautifully. I wish Smith would offer that length more widely. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chaasing perfection five shots at a time"
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Post by bushog on Jan 17, 2020 18:50:18 GMT -5
I agree about the 5" barrel on an N-frame.
Just seems right somehow.
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S&W 544
Jan 17, 2020 18:51:45 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by magman on Jan 17, 2020 18:51:45 GMT -5
Thanks Lee. I heard about the heat treating. No intention of "hotrodding". Guess I start looking for one at a decent price.
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Post by taffin on Jan 17, 2020 19:10:09 GMT -5
Thanks Lee. I heard about the heat treating. No intention of "hotrodding". Guess I start looking for one at a decent price. RUMORS ARE JUST THAT. YOU CAN FIND HUNDREDS OF THEM ON THE NET. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE S&W WOULD TAKE A CHANCE LIKE THAT AND NOT HEAT TREAT ANY CYLINDERS?
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Post by Lee Martin on Jan 17, 2020 20:46:15 GMT -5
John - the rumor was the frames weren't heat treated the same as the magnum N's. There was no speculation on the cylinders. Personally, I don't buy it. I doubt Smith would forge frames, mill them, and then change heat treatment based on the chamber. But Magnman mentioned rumors and this was definitely one of them on the 544. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time"
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S&W 544
Jan 18, 2020 14:16:00 GMT -5
Post by Aeroscout on Jan 18, 2020 14:16:00 GMT -5
I've been shooting a Uberti Flattop 44/40 for a year now. So far it's been quite enjoyable, and very accurate. An N frame in 44/40 would be fun.
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S&W 544
Jan 18, 2020 20:09:04 GMT -5
Post by x101airborne on Jan 18, 2020 20:09:04 GMT -5
With the way I have seen bean counters do other businesses, yes, I believe if they could save 10 cents per weapon, they will. I would want to know before going forward like the OP.
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S&W 544
Jan 18, 2020 22:40:14 GMT -5
Post by bradshaw on Jan 18, 2020 22:40:14 GMT -5
With the way I have seen bean counters do other businesses, yes, I believe if they could save 10 cents per weapon, they will. I would want to know before going forward like the OP. ***** During a discussion of heat treatment, Bill Ruger says, “I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t do it right. It costs just as much to do a poor job as it does to do it right.” Not part of the conversation, some persons just know the subject better than others, including the steel selection for forming method, i.e., drop forge, lost wax cast, billet. In describing frame peening on the Mossberg Abilene to Bill Ruger, I said, What sort of heat treatment is that? “ What makes you think it’s heat treated?” says Bill, his eyes quite tempered. A note on Smith & Wessons----and I think folk such as Jack Huntington, Hamilton Bowen, and Roy Jinks should have a better answer----seems a given frame size was serial numbered consecutively, irrespective of its model designation. If so, to designate different heat treatments could confuse matters dangerously. Another way of looking at it, a manufacturer makes a special edition revolver considered attractive to collectors; expects few, if any, will be shot. Or, shot very little. "Why bother to heat treat?” (Except for the cylinder, of course.) Or, the revolver is to be fully engraved. Why heat treat any of it? Or, possibly, heat treat after engraving. Does anyone reading this think Ruger, S&W, of Freedom Arms would trust the gun will not be loaded with magnums and shot? I watched engravers at work in Smith & Wesson, including a revolver for Bill Jordan. Production revolvers. Reckon it's safe to say heat treatments were carried out before the guns were sent to engraving. Don’t propose this an answer to whether the M-544 did our didn’t receive a particular heat treatment, just a note on how such attention can complicate production. David Bradshaw
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S&W 544
Jan 18, 2020 22:48:27 GMT -5
Post by x101airborne on Jan 18, 2020 22:48:27 GMT -5
Yessir, Mr. Bradshaw and I wont go against your logic. My only thoughts were... 1. There are no "magnum" or "+P" 44-40 loadings as I am aware. 2. The bean counters do run amok at will sometimes. I will certainly trust you over most others and do so saying these are my ignorant opinions; not proven fact.
But to be honest here, we are talking about Smith and Wesson and not Ruger. Mr. Ruger has a great point, but that is not necessarily apples to apples.
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S&W 544
Jan 19, 2020 9:21:40 GMT -5
Post by mobjack on Jan 19, 2020 9:21:40 GMT -5
<snip> 1. There are no "magnum" or "+P" 44-40 loadings as I am aware. <snip>
If I am not mistaken, there were loads that would be considered higher pressure, in the "rifle only" loads that were for the Winchester 92s chambered in 44 WCF, (Colt and others used the 44-40 designation, so as to not have "Winchester" on their firearms.)
John Taffin, would be the one to correctly answer the question about higher pressure 44-40 loads being available.
As to the frames being heat-treated, no telling. That is something that could be checked with a Rockwell tester. I thought that Lee Martin's father had one. It would only be a matter of comparing the frame hardness of a model 29, 44 Magnum to a model 544, 44-40 frame. Though as mentioned, Bean Counters sometimes will go to great length to save a penny.
Mobjack
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S&W 544
Jan 19, 2020 9:46:04 GMT -5
Post by bradshaw on Jan 19, 2020 9:46:04 GMT -5
<snip> 1. There are no "magnum" or "+P" 44-40 loadings as I am aware. <snip>
If I am not mistaken, there were loads that would be considered higher pressure, in the "rifle only" loads that were for the Winchester 92s chambered in 44 WCF, (Colt and others used the 44-40 designation, so as to not have "Winchester" on their firearms.)
John Taffin, would be the one to correctly answer the question about higher pressure 44-40 loads being available. As to the frames being heat-treated, no telling. That is something that could be checked with a Rockwell tester. I thought that Lee Martin's father had one. It would only be a matter of comparing the frame hardness of a model 29, 44 Magnum to a model 544, 44-40 frame. Though as mentioned, Bean Counters sometimes will go to great length to save a penny. Mobjack ***** Indeed, .44-40 for revolver and a separate higher pressure rifle loading was sold over the counter in the 1960’s. Most of what I saw had the “for rifles” caution. David Bradshaw
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S&W 544
Jan 19, 2020 10:02:17 GMT -5
Post by x101airborne on Jan 19, 2020 10:02:17 GMT -5
I learned something new today. I had no idea since I wasn't around back then.
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S&W 544
Jan 19, 2020 10:13:47 GMT -5
Post by taffin on Jan 19, 2020 10:13:47 GMT -5
John Taffin, would be the one to correctly answer the question about higher pressure 44-40 loads being available. I DON'T KNOW OF ANY BUT THERE ARE SOME IN LOADING MANUALS ESPECIALLY OLDER MANUALS THAT ARE VERY, I MEAN VERY HEAVY.
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