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Post by bradshaw on Jan 18, 2020 14:57:16 GMT -5
Has anybody here recovered one of these bullets from a game animal? A cast boolit buddy checked mine in .41 and said they were soft as pure lead, same with Nosler .41s. ***** Recovered Speer “half-jacket” .44s from beef, both 225 SWC HP and 240 SWC. As the Speer has no lead contact with rifling, they may be driven much harder than true half-jacket bullets swaged on the C-H Swag-O-Matic press. I limited the C-H SWC and SWC HP to around the speed of sound in .44 Mag and .357 Mag, perhaps a bit faster in the .357. Phenominally actuate around 1,060 fps and no bullet at that speed kills whitetails more decisively. They will mash out a bit. Driven harder, accuracy takes a dive and that lumbering Joe Frazier punch becomes erratic. The Speer is at its best considered in the context of the C-H half-jacket SWC----even though it may be driven faster. Driven full house into meat, the Speer core mushrooms in a less symmetrical mushroom than, say, the Hornady pre-XTP JHP or its conceptual heir, the Nosler JHP (both with pure lead core). Core of the old Speer may sheer and shed against the side of the cup, leaving a lighter weight wadcutter. Don’t think the old Speer “half-jacket” (I use parentheses because the jacket is more like 5/8) was made in .45. Otherwise, my old shooting partner Ed Verge would have loaded them in his old model Blackhawk .45 Colt, seated over H110. As it was, Verge seated the pre-XTP Hornady .45 250 JHP over 22/H110 in the Blackhawk he chopped to 4-3/4-inch. For sure, a .45 250 or 260 grain SWC half-jacket would be a thumper. Thing is, today we have POWDER COAT with its anneal to thank for providing big punch effect without a jacket and without leading. Spanning 1960’s-70’s, Walter Verge (Ed’s uncle), hunted the Speer half-jacket, the ,357 SWC HP with a sheet metal screw in the nose, and the .44 SWC, but I didn’t hear anything about him recovering bullets. All of us did our own butching, and we didn’t recover many sixgun bullets from deer. The old Speer “half-jacket is roll crimped on the lead edge of the cup. The C-H swaged half-jacket is DEEP SEATED and roll crimped above the shoulder of the core. David Bradshaw
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Post by jfs on Jan 19, 2020 1:09:20 GMT -5
I was lucky and found a bunch of reload components on GB for 41 mag. They included 6 boxes of WW brass, four boxes of Speer 220gr SP, and one box 200gr HP along with 3 boxes of 210gr TMJ-SIL bullets. Plus one box pre-XTP 210gr HP`s and one box of Sierra 220gr FPJ-SIL bullets.. Good stuff..
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Post by mart on Jan 19, 2020 1:19:52 GMT -5
I picked up two boxes of .357 160 grain Speer "half jackets" at the gun show today. I broke down and bought those 225 grain HP's that were on GB. Don't know what I'll use them on for sure but maybe I can get in a hunt for Sitka Blacktails in the next couple seasons. The 44 HP's ought to work well on Alaska Blacktails in a 44 Special.
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 19, 2020 8:17:14 GMT -5
I picked up two boxes of .357 160 grain Speer "half jackets" at the gun show today. I broke down and bought those 225 grain HP's that were on GB. Don't know what I'll use them on for sure but maybe I can get in a hunt for Sitka Blacktails in the next couple seasons. The 44 HP's ought to work well on Alaska Blacktails in a 44 Special. ***** Mart.... do your part, reckon the Speer will do its part. James.... excellent find of oldies but goodies. Especially for the .41 Mag. You always have a purpose in mind and I respect your reach back into history to nab a few seminal developments. For those unfamiliar with some of these terms: * Sierra FPJ-Sil----Full Profile Jacket, Silhouette----jacket-rearward construction, truncated cone profile. Some antimony in lead core. Specific for tournament; receives some use hunting. * Speer TMJ-Sil----Total Metal Jacket----revolver bullets designed specifically for IHMSA silhouette, Electroplated jacket encloses lead core. Through a difficult development process, Speer refined precise thickness for top accuracy. Speer Gold Dot hollow points start as TMJ bullets. David Bradshaw
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Post by x101airborne on Jan 19, 2020 10:08:10 GMT -5
Speer Gold Dot hollow points start as TMJ bullets.
Now see, that's two things you taught me today. I didn't know that.
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Post by matt56 on Jan 19, 2020 15:07:33 GMT -5
I missed the boat with the Speer silhouette bullets, I have a small collection of .357, .41 and .44 but not enough to feel comfortable using regularly. I would really like to find some of the 200 grain .357s
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 19, 2020 23:09:02 GMT -5
I missed the boat with the Speer silhouette bullets, I have a small collection of .357, .41 and .44 but not enough to feel comfortable using regularly. I would really like to find some of the 200 grain .357s ***** The Speer .357 200 Grain TMJ over slightly compressed load of IMR 4198 single-base stick powder in Federal .357 Maximum case, fired from DWA M-40 V8S (Vent 8-inch Slotted Shroud), set a Revoler Aggregate Record. Twist of 8” barrel 1:14 or 1:16. Velocity a snail’s pace 1258 fps with long barrel time. Recoil a push instead of jolt. Last five shots on rams @ 200 meters would fit inside a coffee cup. Bullet looks like a copper version of an RCBS cast. Speer also made a .357 180 TMJ. David Bradshaw
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kgb
.30 Stingray
Posts: 131
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Post by kgb on Jan 20, 2020 18:10:12 GMT -5
Has anybody here recovered one of these bullets from a game animal? A cast boolit buddy checked mine in .41 and said they were soft as pure lead, same with Nosler .41s. ***** Recovered Speer “half-jacket” .44s from beef, both 225 SWC HP and 240 SWC. As the Speer has no lead contact with rifling, they may be driven much harder than true half-jacket bullets swaged on the C-H Swag-O-Matic press. I limited the C-H SWC and SWC HP to around the speed of sound in .44 Mag and .357 Mag, perhaps a bit faster in the .357. Phenominally actuate around 1,060 fps and no bullet at that speed kills whitetails more decisively. They will mash out a bit. Driven harder, accuracy takes a dive and that lumbering Joe Frazier punch becomes erratic. Okay, I've only recovered one .41 bullet, an XTP from a Marlin kept inside by the off hide. Apparently a Gold Dot from the rifle did a similar thing but I didn't find it probably because I didn't check well enough to see how far it traveled along under the hide---the XTP made it from the rib cage to nearly a hind leg. Have driven several 41's through deer, 170gr Sierra HP's from a T/C and a revolver, a 220 Speer from a revolver, and a Remington 200gr HP from the Marlin. The Nosler and a cast are the two I've yet to try, along with 1 revolver that hasn't gotten the practice needed for confidence with it, I expect to be able to recover a Nosler and never see the cast when the time comes. Somewhere I've got an old Gun Digest or similar big book with an article on someone shooting a bunch of those old Speer designs through a Marlin to cull a herd of goats or sheep that had some sort of disease and reporting the results. Believe they performed very well in that situation. Kirk
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Post by mart on Jan 20, 2020 21:38:19 GMT -5
I went by my favorite gun shop today to pick up my fluted cylinder Bisley 41 and low and behold in their old stock stuff I found three boxes of the old Speer bullets. One full boxes of the 200 and 220 grain and a partial box of the 200 grain. Great shop. They often get to buy reloading estates and always have lots of old stock reloading components. It pays to spend some time going through the stacks of boxes of bullets.
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Post by x101airborne on Jan 20, 2020 21:41:32 GMT -5
I bought two 50 count boxes of loaded handloads just to tear down for components. Yuup! Speer half jackets!
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cmh
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,745
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Post by cmh on Jan 20, 2020 21:57:16 GMT -5
I’ve got a bag of them in 44 cal a good friend gave me..... I love them!!!
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lobo
.327 Meteor
Location: SE Mississippi
Posts: 536
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Post by lobo on Jan 23, 2020 2:14:22 GMT -5
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Post by 38 WCF on Jan 23, 2020 8:43:34 GMT -5
I once took an Antelope in Wyoming with my 41 Mag Ruger using that solid point bullet. Worked well.
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Post by mart on Jan 23, 2020 12:17:16 GMT -5
I'm too weak to be hanging around a bunch of enablers like you guys. I ended up buying these.
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lobo
.327 Meteor
Location: SE Mississippi
Posts: 536
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Post by lobo on Jan 23, 2020 13:23:19 GMT -5
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