Testing .32-20, antique ammo and reloads

[tinkerpearce]

 
Test gun was this early 4" Colt Police Positive Special.

I had four loads to test in this caliber, two antique loads of unknown origin, a smokeless handload and a black powder handload, both using a 96gr. LRNFP from Aardvark bullets.



100gr. copper-washed LRNFP (unknown if this is commercial or handloaded.)



779 fps. 135 ft./lbs SD: 23



115gr. LRNFP (unknown if this is commercial or handloaded.)



761 fps. 149 ft./lbs SD: 13



96gr. LRNFP, 3.7gr. of Unique with a CCI500 small pistol primer



744 fps. 118 ft./lbs SD: 35



This load is rather light, as you can see. I usually load this bullet over 4.0 gr. of Unique; I’ll be testing that load in the future.



96gr. LRNFP, 12.7gr. Hodgden Triple 7 FFFg (black powder substitute) with a CCI500 small pistol primer



837 fps. 149 ft./lbs SD: 12



This powder charge is measured by weight, not volume (as was more typical with Black powder.) Triple-7 yields slightly higher velocity than black powder, but cannot be compressed as much. On the balance this load is probably a fair approximation of the original load for this cartridge.

Naturally in a K-Frame S&W or Colt Army revolver this round can be loaded significantly hotter, but I don't have one of those... yet.

[oddshooter]

Wow and Wow.
Great timing. I just spent several hours at an indoor range yesterday shooting .32s (my current addiction)

I was shooting mostly hotter loads for the 32-20, the 32 H&Rmag, and the 327fedmag.

My goto Test Gun for the 32 H&Rmags is a scoped Dan Wesson IHMSA Field Pistol, with 8" barrel. $2200 on GB
My test gun for the 32-20 is a Ruger Buckeye convertible. $650 from a friend
My test gun for the 327fedmag is a Ruger Blackhawk 8. $850 on GB.
I designate a "test gun" as one I know I can shoot consistently well with most loads. The test gun is used for first shot of all future powder/bullet combos. If decent groups and velocity, then I move to other guns of the same caliber.


I really liked the pic of the Colt police positive special you have for the .32
I just acquired a 1915 Colt Army Special in 32-20 at the December Phoenix SAR show; really nice condition, and shoots beautifully. $700 ($699). I keep reading that it can handle hot loads, but it's hard for me to risk when I have a Buckeye 32-20.
The seller also had a 32-20 in a first gen Colt SAA in nice condition for $4,250. I tried several times for two days, but he wouldn't budge.

If you are headed for hotter 32-20 loads, I can not recommend the Buckeye more highly. I believe it and the DW 32-20 are the best (hottest) ever built. The DW 32-20 is NEVER seen. In the Buckeye, you also get the 32 H&Rmag cylinder.
If you are headed to the hotter 327fedmag loads, I can not recommend the Blackhawk 8 more highly. The BH8 is a real gun with a beautiful design.

While at SAR, I also purchased a NIB Ruger Single Seven in 327fedmag, $550. The cylinders have circular chatter marks all the way down and it is impossible to eject fired brass. The brass conforms to the chatter marks. The hammer becomes 4 times harder to pull half way back. The trigger is almost 5 lbs. You can see daylight where the grips meet the frame. Now you know why I called the BH 8 a real gun, above.

Prescut

[ddixie884]

Prescut, That SS needs to go back to the Mother ship.

[oddshooter]

ddixie884,

Hey, bud. Nice looking up and seeing your name. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy; like friends are around.

You may be right about S7 needing the mothership. I've hesitated because I have had handguns screwed up by sending them in. I'm not sure what they would do about the cylinder, except replace it with one that not be any better. Maybe scratch it up like the last time.

My preference would be 2 Dogs; who I know can handle the cylinder job perfectly. Unfortunately, that is only one of the issues.

I'll cogitate a little longer while my initial disappointment fades before I talk to CS.
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tinkerpearce,

Where do you get your recipes?  Are they from one particular manual or experience?  Your standard deviation SD looks tiny.

Also, I just found out why I couldn't even force my 32-20 handload rounds into my cylinders yesterday on two different guns.    I had handloaded a ton of graduated powder/bullet combos all year that I thought now might all be bad, OUCH.    Then I remembered I had used a spare 32-20 cylinder to check each combo for fit.   More questions, so I micrometered all the dimensions of everything involved with some anxiety. Out of nowhere, I noticed that there was a distinctive lack of a bottleneck on the brass. The answer was like a cold ice bucket over my head.

I had forgotten that I had tried several of the 32-20 rounds in my 30 carbine SA revolver for kicks and giggles. They didn't shoot bad, but they left the case without a bottleneck. They became straight wall cases after firing in the 30 carbine straight wall cylinders. I should have marked them at that point !

When handloading, I just grabbed those cases and didn't notice the lack of a bottleneck on what were shiny, clean cases marked 32-20. Live and relearn. I already knew to mark hot loads different from mouse fart loads. I sometime need to mark empty cases now as well.

The GREAT news was that months of handloads were good. I just happened to grab the few straight walled 32-20 to test at the range. They've got to have that bottleneck.


Prescut
It's been a long time since I've been in an indoor range.  The wind never blows there, it just SUCKS.

[tinkerpearce]

Recipes are an amalgam of experience, the reloading pages of M.D.Smith, Sharpe's 1937 'Complete Guide to Handloading,' various online sources and manuals... and occasionally a little math in the mix.

[2 Dogs]

Prescut, I’m afraid by the time one cleaned up the chatter marks the chambers would be well oversized. Send it back to Ruger. Thanks for thinking of me.

[ddixie884]

I ve got 5 of the ss 2X7.5, 2X5.5 all NIB and a 4 5/8 that I shoot. All have good smooth chamners. 1 of the 7.5s amd my 4 5/8 were off for loading. I dremmeled the 4 5/8 and got into the transfer bar. I called Ruger on the 7.5. They sent UPS and 10 days later it was back home, fixed...........

[oddshooter]

Jan 9, 2020 18:34:48 GMT -5 tinkerpearce said:

Recipes are an amalgam of experience, the reloading pages of M.D.Smith, Sharpe's 1937 'Complete Guide to Handloading,' various online sources and manuals... and occasionally a little math in the mix.

tinkerpearce,

M D Smith

I don't hear that name mentioned much. I'm a big fan myself. I've printed all his tables I could find for my own binder.
I'm unfamiliar with the Sharpe's 1937 manual.  It must be a beaut for you to reference it today.

My favorite part is where you said "a little math in the mix".
I do a little of that myself because the tables never seem to match up exactly with what I'm up to.  Finding even a "close" bullet is sometimes tough.
I'm still searching for the difference between interpretation and extrapolation.

Let us know how that search for the next 32-20 goes for you.  I watch your acquisitions and custom work regularly and am jealous of your skills.  In my case, it would need more intestinal fortitude to tackle some of your work.  Up until I got the Army Special, I had centered on new, strong tanks from Ruger.  Now I've got the vintage bug bad from that old Colt.  My lady has questions about your character; she said, "As if you need any more encouragement".


Prescut

[tinkerpearce]

Jan 10, 2020 11:53:42 GMT -5 oddshooter said:

Jan 9, 2020 18:34:48 GMT -5 tinkerpearce said:

I'm unfamiliar with the Sharpe's 1937 manual.  It must be a beaut for you to reference it today.

Prescut

Google it- you can find it in .pdf format as a free download. Excellent manual, especially if one is loading for obsolete cartridges.

[eagle1899]

I have a Colt Army Special in 32-20. I shoot the same load with everything from a 78 cast to a 115 cast.

3.5 grains of Promo. It is bulky in the case and performs well.

[oddshooter]

tinkerpearce,

hey bud,
thanks for that recommendation on Sharpe's 1937 manual. I started reading it and got lost in the stories. I enjoy the history lesson I get from old books like this. The tables seem to be all about Unique and BullsEye, at least the powders I recognize. Some very hot loads offered in 357 Mag. The multiple .32s are one of the best caliber sections in the load table.

nice way to kill a couple of hours today! I'm going back to read the rest.

much appreciated,
Prescut

[coltnewservice45]

Great thread, here are some of my results testing .32-20 factory loads and handloads:

Factory .32-20 Ammunition in Rifle and Revolver

Ammunition Description___________Colt Police Positive 5”_____Savage Sporter 25”

Rem-UMC 100-grain lead
Kleanbore “Dogbone” box 1930s______898, 44 Sd, 116 ES________1302, 15 SD, 38 ES

Peters 100-grain softpoint
Kings Mills, Ohio 1940s____________870, 28, 71_______________1150, 44, 137

WRA 100-grain lead
Red & yellow box 1950s_____________854, 33, 87_______________1263, 18, 53

W-W 100-grain lead
Round primer, yellow box, 1970s____800, 11, 31_______________1241, 9, 22

W-W 100-grain lead
Flat primer, white box, 1990s_______778, 27, 69_______________1172, 18, 65

R-P 100-grain lead
Bridgeport, CT 1970s________________780, 24, 67_______________1181, 17, 52

R-P 100-grain lead
Lonoke, AR current production________716, 21, 55_______________1140, 12, 35

Column Mean by Gun___________________5” Revolver______________25” Rifle
Average Velocity of Factory Loads_____814 fps._________________1207 fps

"Group 1" - Standard Pressure .32-20 Loads for Rifle or Revolver

Bullet, Little Dandy#, Pdr. Chg.____Colt Police Positive 5”______Savage Sporter 25”

Remington .311” 100-grain JSP________930 fps, 16 Sd, 45 ES________1230 fps, 26 Sd, 79 ES
LD#4, 4.9 grains AutoComp

Accurate 31-105T

LD#1, 3.2 grains TiteGroup_________858 fps, 22 Sd, 61 Es_______1133 fps, 30 Sd, 67 ES

LD#4, 3.4 grains Bullseye__________861 fps, 19 Sd, 47ES________1173 fps, 18 Sd, 54 ES

LD#3, 4.5 grains AutoComp_________912 fps, 19 Sd, 53 ES _______1260 fps, 21 Sd, 55 ES

LD#4, 4.9 grains AutoComp_________ 943 fps, 32 Sd, 71 ES_______1315 fps, 32 Sd, 118 ES

LD#10, 7.5 grains Alliant#2400_____991 fps, 24 Sd, 65 ES_______1348, 29 Sd, 69 ES DO NOT EXCEED!

LD#13, 10.0 grains IMR4227_________985 fps, 25 Sd, 61ES________1280 fps, 53 Sd, 176 ES

LD#17, 13 grains IMR4198___________974 fps, 21 Sd, 94 ES________1326 fps, 46 Sd, 138 ES

[AxeHandle]

M.D. Smith lives here in North Alabama

[AxeHandle]

Have to execute caution with my 32-20 loads. My TC Contender loads in addition to being for a .308 bore are too much for my old S&W and Colt

[oddshooter]

coltnewservice45,

Nice post for #20 on some interesting combo load data. It looks on the softer side.   You gotta hang out here more often.
I haven't tried my BullsEye or TiteGroup as yet; those look interesting for medium loads. I use a lot of N340, 4227, and 2400.


Axehandle,
I too have had to watch my 32 handloading and mark carefully. I have a tank for a 32-20 in the Buckeye and shot 1330fps with 13.0g of 4227 and a GT 115 HP; 1" groups benchrested @25yds. I don't think my Army Special would like that high pressure too much.

I also have to keep my .308 for the T/C 30-20 separate.

I'm surprised when folks don't seem concerned about making mouse fart loads and fire breathing dragon loads and storing them together unmarked. Maybe it's just me and my failing memory, but I have to have all the help available to remind me of what's HOT, and what's not.


Prescut
My powder coating using colors has really helped to differentiate. Red is hot, Blue is cold.