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Post by Burnston on Nov 30, 2019 21:45:06 GMT -5
I've been following squawberryman's thread on the Guns of Andy Horvath, which features several .41 specials. After seeing the .41spl periodically discussed on this forum, I am prompted to ask, why this cartridge?
Be advised, this is not rhetorical or intended to be divisive. I am simply ignorant, and too much of a penny pincher to venture financially into unfamiliar sixgun waters.
Based on what limited information is available on the always reliable and accurate internet, I can see many of the heavy hitters, (Keith, Jordan) pursued commercial development of this cartridge, to no avail, for law enforcement. Yet, as I understand it, Skelton advocated the development of the .41 Magnum for law enforcement use. I suppose my basic question is, does the .41spl fill a gap that the .41mag, .44spl, .45, or a few others do not fill, or is it to be on the list of guns that one buys/has built after they've filled the basic slots of .38/.357, .41 mag, .44spl/mag, .45 Colt & ACP, etc.?
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Post by kings6 on Nov 30, 2019 22:02:18 GMT -5
I think of these things when I think of the 41 Special. Whatever the 44 Special does, this one does too. Second, due to 41 caliber revovlers coming onto the scene later, most 41 revolvers tend to be pretty accurate as far as barrel and cylinder dimensions go. Third, it lets me load heavy 41 bullets in short cylinder guns like my Horvath gun that was built on a rebored 357 cylinder. I even shoot them in my TLA 41 mag guns. Fourth, I just love the 41s!
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princeout
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Post by princeout on Nov 30, 2019 22:09:19 GMT -5
For me, the 41 Special is the largest caliber that fits into the Single Six platform. There was a time when I was trying to gather in the largest caliber for each size Ruger SA, from the Bearcat to the Super Blackhawk Maximum frame size. I managed a Single Six in 41 Special, a mid-frame flat top in 50 GI, a Blackhawk in 500 Linebaugh and a 500 Linebaugh Maximum in the largest frame size. I never did get the Bearcat in 327 Federal Mag. I let my Max’s go, so that quest is over.
But the 41 Special is more than just a place holder in that quest. I really like shooting it. In the Single Six frame, you can’t get carried away with hot loads, but it is an accurate gun in a small package. I’d kinda like to have a stronger one in a midframe flattop or a Colt SAA someday. Tim
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Post by Burnston on Nov 30, 2019 22:14:01 GMT -5
I think of these things when I think of the 41 Special. Whatever the 44 Special does, this one does too. Second, due to 41 caliber revovlers coming onto the scene later, most 41 revolvers tend to be pretty accurate as far as barrel and cylinder dimensions go. Third, it lets me load heavy 41 bullets in short cylinder guns like my Horvath gun that was built on a rebored 357 cylinder. I even shoot them in my TLA 41 mag guns. Fourth, I just love the 41s! Robb, Thorough and practical response. Thank you. I am especially intrigued by your 2nd point. Would a guy who already possesses multiple .44spls be practically benefited at all by adding a .41spl, beyond simply adding another caliber to his collection?
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Post by Burnston on Nov 30, 2019 22:18:53 GMT -5
For me, the 41 Special is the largest caliber that fits into the Single Six platform. There was a time when I was trying to gather in the largest caliber for each size Ruger SA, from the Bearcat to the Super Blackhawk Maximum frame size. I managed a Single Six in 41 Special, a mid-frame flat top in 50 GI, a Blackhawk in 500 Linebaugh and a 500 Linebaugh Maximum in the largest frame size. I never did get the Bearcat in 327 Federal Mag. I let my Max’s go, so that quest is over. But the 41 Special is more than just a place holder in that quest. I really like shooting it. In the Single Six frame, you can’t get carried away with hot loads, but it is an accurate gun in a small package. I’d kinda like to have a stronger one in a midframe flattop or a Colt SAA someday. Tim Tim, So can I assume that your most valued attribute of the .41 is its compatibility with small frames?
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princeout
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Post by princeout on Nov 30, 2019 22:25:50 GMT -5
For the original quest, yes, fitting the Single Six frame was important. But, having shot it quite a bit, I’ve grown to appreciate the accuracy and easy shooting feel of the gun. A six shot version in a slightly larger frame, either Ruger or Colt, may eventually end up here. Meanwhile, Bushog and Kings6 both want a turn with the little 5 shot 41. Maybe someday.
Tim
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jt
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Post by jt on Nov 30, 2019 22:28:43 GMT -5
In my case, I followed the 41spl path in search for the largest caliber a guy could safely chamber into a Colt SAA with 100% safety margins while loaded to the gunnels... why(?) Simply because the Colts size & weight make for effortless carry on a persons belt day in and day out on pastures, during daily range-work and while enduring backcountry hunts in the mountains where a bulky, heavy Super Blackhawk (or similar) starts to show its weight disadvantages.
Of coarse, in relation to the 100% safety comment above, 44specials have been known (in rarity) but known nonetheless to bulge a chamber time to time loaded Keith-heavy, where'as a comparable weight bullet in 41 can be pushed to the exact performance as the 44, without chamber bulging concern at all due to it's thicker chamber walls. So in a Colt size midframe which has shorter COAL cylinders than 41mag allows for when using the very heavy bullets, 41special becomes the ticket. With the right bullet choices, shank-lengths and case capacities kept in mind, the special can match the grand majority of mag power thresholds and do it pretty easily in a handy, comfortable to pack Colt.
That's why 41 special to-me.
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Post by kings6 on Nov 30, 2019 23:09:40 GMT -5
I didn't limit my 41 Specials to mid sized Rugers either. Here is a USFA and a Smith & WEsson model 28. The 28 could have been done on a smaller framed gun but I went with what base gun was in the safe at the time.
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Post by bushog on Nov 30, 2019 23:56:05 GMT -5
Here we go....
I'm also a fan of the .41 Special...
But...I've been thinking of doing a lightweight Vaquero in .41. Sixshot has been advocating a load in his .41 Magnum that pushes a 215gn bullet at about 1050fps as far as accuracy and killing capability.
Now, that's right on top of .41sp territory.
I bought a .357 New Vaquero to do a .41sp but if I can have 6 shots of .41 magnum so why do a .41 Special?
Decisions....
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Post by kings6 on Dec 1, 2019 0:32:14 GMT -5
Because you can! The road less traveled my friend!
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Post by taffin on Dec 1, 2019 0:54:44 GMT -5
I think of these things when I think of the 41 Special. Whatever the 44 Special does, this one does too. Second, due to 41 caliber revovlers coming onto the scene later, most 41 revolvers tend to be pretty accurate as far as barrel and cylinder dimensions go. Third, it lets me load heavy 41 bullets in short cylinder guns like my Horvath gun that was built on a rebored 357 cylinder. I even shoot them in my TLA 41 mag guns. Fourth, I just love the 41s! HAMILTON BOWEN AND I WERE PLANNING A COUPLE CUSTOM GUNS BACK IN THE EARLY 1980s. WE CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF THE .41 SPECIAL TO FILL IN THE NATURAL GAP ( .38 SPECIAL AND .357 MAGNUM. .44 SPECIAL AND MAGNUM, .41 SPECIAL AND MAGNUM. WE SIMPLY TRIMMED .41 MAGNUM BRASS TO .44 SPECIAL LENGTH.) THE FIRST ONE HE DID FOR ME WAS A 5-1/2" COLT SAA THEN A 4-3/4" FLAT-TOP RUGER ON A EARLY .357 BLACKHAWK, AND THEN A 586 S&W 4". LATER JOHN GALLAGHER DID TWO 4" RUGERS AND A SINGLE-SIX AND GARY REEDER DID A PERFECT PACKIN' PISTOL ALL IN .41 SPECIAL.MILT MORRISON RECENTLY DID A FLAT-TOP TARGET RUGER 7-1/2" .41 SPECIAL.
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rkrcpa
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Post by rkrcpa on Dec 1, 2019 9:20:39 GMT -5
Here we go.... I'm also a fan of the .41 Special... But...I've been thinking of doing a lightweight Vaquero in .41. Sixshot has been advocating a load in his .41 Magnum that pushes a 215gn bullet at about 1050fps as far as accuracy and killing capability. Now, that's right on top of .41sp territory. I bought a .357 New Vaquero to do a .41sp but if I can have 6 shots of .41 magnum so why do a .41 Special? Decisions.... When Andy did my 41 Mid Frame I had him chamber it in 41mag. My thinking was that the versatility of being able to use factory ammo would be a plus. The reality is, my most used bullet, the 410459, will not fit in the mid frame cylinder using magnum brass. I also have determined that the big loads for my 41 Bisley will fit in the mid frame, and while safe, I will not be making that mistake again. If I did it over again I would chamber for 41 Spl and not look back.
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Post by bushog on Dec 1, 2019 10:08:56 GMT -5
Because you can! The road less traveled my friend! You talkin' to me?
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Post by kings6 on Dec 1, 2019 10:25:57 GMT -5
Of course I’m talking to you!
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Post by rjm52 on Dec 1, 2019 13:15:59 GMT -5
Another .41 User here...
As already stated the .41 Special will fit in a few applications that the .44 Special will not.
I have two custom built .41 Specials on Colt SAA size frames and it works very well.
The other application is for short cylinder .41 Magnums such as the now discontinued Taurus Tracker and Freedom Arms 97. I use nothing but .41 Special brass in the Trackers but as I settled on a MP mold that runs from 165-180 grains for the 97 I can use Magnum brass without coming close to exceeding the max LOA...
I've used nothing but Unique powder for .41 Special and found that regardless of bullet used just drop one grain off whatever your .41 Magnum loads are any one gets the same +- velocity. My .41 Magnum loads use 8, 9 and 10 grains of Unique so with Special brass it is 7, 8 and 9 for about the same velocity...
A FA 97 4.25" with a round butt is about a perfect Packin' Pistol if you like .41s...
Bob
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