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Post by bagdadjoe on Aug 3, 2019 13:39:14 GMT -5
Then....there's the situation if someone grabs your single action.. Most likely you're safe at least from that guy. Amazing how many people will try to just aim and pull the trigger...without cocking it. Glocks have done this.. ;-) Guy here locally was carjacked...miscreant got hold of his gun, aimed it at his chest and pulled the trigger. Gun had a safety. Miscreant flees in victims car to be stopped 15 minutes later by several cops. Long rap sheet. A lot of people you'd think *should* know , don't. On Live PD, an officer took a single action from a guy...guy was ok, but officer still found the need, for some unknown reason, to unload the gun before giving it back. He couldn't figure it out..finally pulled the cylinder pin and removed the cylinder. So...some advantages and safety "features" built in.
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Post by bobwright on Aug 3, 2019 20:47:44 GMT -5
But what about the 90% of the time when a shot is not required Or wanted. ?? Then there is a cocked single action that Needs to be decocker all the while covering the friend or enemy that was on the other side of the door, holding onto a lunging sled dog, ect. Ect.ect. Really difficult to clear a house or building with a cocked handgun. And the process of cocking gives anyone less than a firm handheld on the gun. With a striker fired auto or double action revolver or auto. All it takes is a pull of the trigger. And if no shot is called for and the situation is resolved the gun goes back in the holster noiselessly. All a person needs to do is keep their finger off the trigger for the whole evolution The other thing a modern autoloaders provides is a place to put a light. So a door can be opened ect AND the situation can be illuminated. Sure beats a shot in the dark ! If a shot is not required nor wanted, why is your gun in your hand? I've had to, on a couple of occasions, check for unwanted guests. Both times I was armed with an uncocked Single Action. Believe me, if the need had arisen, I could have gotten off a shot without any loss of time. For some reason, I perceive that you think cocking/decocking a Single Action is a long process. Its the blink of an eye fast. As to clearing a house or building, any handgun is a poor choice. That job is best left to a fragmentation grenade. But the whole subject here is carrying a gun for self (or third party) defense. We're not securing the village. Bob Wright
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Post by coldtriggerfinger on Aug 3, 2019 23:52:48 GMT -5
I've been shooting single action revolvers since 78 . They just aren't the correct tool for the job. It only takes the blink of an eye for a determined adversary to swat an uncocked handgun out of the way also. Then your pretty much at his mercy. Not a good place to be.
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Post by magpouch on Aug 4, 2019 9:57:07 GMT -5
Most certainly a Single Action can be carried for self defense and used to good effect. That's pretty much the reason they were invented. However evolution of the self defense firearm has brought us to tools that can work better, faster, be lighter or smaller and carry better or "print" less.
To me the most important aspect of being armed, is to be armed. Single actions certainly meet that requirement and have for an awfully long time. I have and will continue to carry them from time to time because I enjoy it. As a generality, a S/A six-gun will have better power, range and potential accuracy.
Logic has a way, to me at any rate, of pointing out that if I am serious about self defense both of self and others, a higher capacity auto-loader with spare magazine or two is a much better choice. Nobody will ever know what type of awful encounter would force them to go to guns in whatever scenario transpires, so if I am serious, I need to be armed as well as possible.
My thinking is that myself, as a self-certified coward of the highest order, running away is always the best defense. After all if you look at statistics half of people shot at by bad-guys are missed, and half of people hit by bad-guys live. So if they don't even shoot at me, I win.
But, can you imagine being armed, with the proper combat mindset, trained by military and outstanding civilian instructors, in any kind of situation where running away is simply not an option, and being forced to engage the type of mass shooter bad-guys we have been seeing lately? Possibly more than one? Them wearing body armor? What if's can be played all day, but don't let this 20th century, progressive, accept-everybody-as-they-are baloney fool you. There are people out there that just want to kill. Like there always have been, and always will be. I want the best tool I can get, and for most situations, best does not mean S/A's.
Just my opinion, I love S/A's and do actually carry them occasionally. In Maine where I live I can sometimes go days without seeing anyone at all. But, I also have better hardware within reach when I do. I really like this site and don't mean to offend anyone, but it's a real harsh world we live in even if we are not personally exposed to it.
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tj3006
.375 Atomic
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Post by tj3006 on Aug 4, 2019 10:21:58 GMT -5
Swatted the gunaway ! Not sure why that couldn't happen with most any gun, thats where barrel length is important, in the home, you should have more than 1 advantage ! If you have not looked at you home from the viewpoint of tactics you need to. ! where do you want to be if an intruder comes in from, The front door, the back door, or any other potential entry point. There is a bedroom near my front door i could stand in the doorway and shoot strong handed without exposing much of myself. there is another doorway directly across from that one. If i stood in that doorway, i would either need to shoot weak handed or lean way out in the hall exposing my hole upper torso ! But you never know what going to happen, Any gun beats what ever your second choice is. But Some are better tools for a given job than others. I like my 1911 .45s for almost anything. But with the crazy bastards who are turning rifles on people, you might need to take a long shot. Then i want a magnum revolver. You never can predict the situation you will be in, so carry what you shoot best ! ...tj3006
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JM
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,423
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Post by JM on Aug 4, 2019 11:11:42 GMT -5
...There are people out there that just want to kill. Like there always have been, and always will be.... How true! I think the percentage is climbing.
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Post by papacharlie on Aug 4, 2019 11:55:08 GMT -5
I have been shooting a single action, all be it a 22LR since the early 70's. I don't see it being a whole lot different than a double action. In both cases, the carrier has to learn how to use it in those types of situations and that take a lot of practice to do correctly.
I carry a 1911 full frame 5" for my conceal weapon currently. I keep it half calked so I still have too pull the hammer back before I can fire. I do this for two reasons; one, I have less of a chance to have the thing go off accidentally, two, as stated with a single action, most civilians are so use to the double action point and shoot that they wouldn't have the intelligence to cock it before trying to fire.
In my opinion there are critical things that come into play when carrying concealed: 1) Know your surroundings, prevention is far better than action. You have to be vigilant enough to watch your surroundings and try to read and if possible to avoid those situations where deadly force is necessary. 2) Practice, the best weapon in the world won't be worth a hill of beans unless you can pull and use it proficiently from muscle memory you developed through practice. 3) When deadly force is necessary, will you even have the chance to use it when a violent criminal is only a foot or two away from you with his own weapon, this isn't Hollywood and it isn't the old west. Although sometimes it feels like it when you watch the news. If he is farther away you may not be in danger and you may have more problems with the judicial system than he ever posed to you. On those cases where it is warranted, you may not have any pre-warning and at that point a double action will not provide you with much if any advantage. 4) Of course there are the situations where you may be able to prevent a crime or a shooting and are presently out of the situation. At that point, it won't matter what you are carrying as you will have time to pull and respond.
I would not hesitate to carry a single action six. It would be easier to cock than my 1911 and may not pose any more difficulty to conceal than my large frame 1911. Besides I have seen some pretty nice western conceal carry rigs that are far better than for autos.
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Post by azshaun on Aug 4, 2019 14:03:27 GMT -5
Logic has a way, to me at any rate, of pointing out that if I am serious about self defense both of self and others, a higher capacity auto-loader with spare magazine or two is a much better choice. Nobody will ever know what type of awful encounter would force them to go to guns in whatever scenario transpires, so if I am serious, I need to be armed as well as possible. I never quite understood this kind of thinking.... if you are serious about self defense you need high capacity and spare mags. Elmer Keith never though so: www.elmerkeithshoot.org/GA/1969_05_Elmer_Keith_Part_1_SingleActions.pdfI like the reliability and simplicity of revolvers. There is not a Lot of things that can go wrong with a SA compared to auto loaders. For me, I’d rather not worry about it.
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Post by bobwright on Aug 4, 2019 16:55:21 GMT -5
I've been shooting single action revolvers since 78 . They just aren't the correct tool for the job. It only takes the blink of an eye for a determined adversary to swat an uncocked handgun out of the way also. Then your pretty much at his mercy. Not a good place to be. O.K. Why is your adversary close enough to reach you standing there with an uncocked Single Action in your hand? If you've drawn and fired, he should not still be standing. NEVER APPROACH ANY ONE WITH YOUR GUN EXPOSED! Bob Wright
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Post by coldtriggerfinger on Aug 4, 2019 21:10:43 GMT -5
I think that perhaps your situation must be very static. Never varying or deviating from your prior experience. Lets hope you never have to shoot someone around your house or vehicle. If you do, their civil suit attorney will probably use this thread to put you in the poor house.
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Post by coldtriggerfinger on Aug 4, 2019 21:33:51 GMT -5
But what about the 90% of the time when a shot is not required Or wanted. ?? Then there is a cocked single action that Needs to be decocker all the while covering the friend or enemy that was on the other side of the door, holding onto a lunging sled dog, ect. Ect.ect. Really difficult to clear a house or building with a cocked handgun. And the process of cocking gives anyone less than a firm handheld on the gun. With a striker fired auto or double action revolver or auto. All it takes is a pull of the trigger. And if no shot is called for and the situation is resolved the gun goes back in the holster noiselessly. All a person needs to do is keep their finger off the trigger for the whole evolution The other thing a modern autoloaders provides is a place to put a light. So a door can be opened ect AND the situation can be illuminated. Sure beats a shot in the dark ! If a shot is not required nor wanted, why is your gun in your hand? I've had to, on a couple of occasions, check for unwanted guests. Both times I was armed with an uncocked Single Action. Believe me, if the need had arisen, I could have gotten off a shot without any loss of time. For some reason, I perceive that you think cocking/decocking a Single Action is a long process. Its the blink of an eye fast. As to clearing a house or building, any handgun is a poor choice. That job is best left to a fragmentation grenade. But the whole subject here is carrying a gun for self (or third party) defense. We're not securing the village. Bob Wright Unless your Bob Mundin or of similar speed I seriously doubt you could clear your holster and fire before a determined adversary could grab your shooting arm and throat from 3 feet or closer. And I guarantee a determined adversary could get within 3 feet of you before you were aware of them. All they need to do is be patient. Do you keep all your gardening , construction, mechanic tools locked up tight at your place. They extend the distance from 3' to 6 feet. I dunno, maybe you have a couple good dogs that walk in front of you most everywhere.
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Post by coldtriggerfinger on Aug 4, 2019 21:49:56 GMT -5
Swatted the gunaway ! Not sure why that couldn't happen with most any gun, thats where barrel length is important, in the home, you should have more than 1 advantage ! If you have not looked at you home from the viewpoint of tactics you need to. ! where do you want to be if an intruder comes in from, The front door, the back door, or any other potential entry point. There is a bedroom near my front door i could stand in the doorway and shoot strong handed without exposing much of myself. there is another doorway directly across from that one. If i stood in that doorway, i would either need to shoot weak handed or lean way out in the hall exposing my hole upper torso ! But you never know what going to happen, Any gun beats what ever your second choice is. But Some are better tools for a given job than others. I like my 1911 .45s for almost anything. But with the crazy bastards who are turning rifles on people, you might need to take a long shot. Then i want a magnum revolver. You never can predict the situation you will be in, so carry what you shoot best ! ...tj3006 When I am going to check something that alerted me and I have to open a door or go around a blind corner my handgun is in my strong hand , tucked in to my side pointed in the direction my body is facing, muzzle just forward of my stomach . Finger off the trigger pressing against the side of the frame. Strong arm locked into my side. And more than 90% of the time 2 dogs go thru the door before I do. Territorial with very good noses and great night vision. Dogs with a vested interest in keeping me safe . My point is that any one with a holstered gun is at a great disadvantage. And chances are good they would loose the fight for their life.
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Post by azshaun on Aug 4, 2019 22:39:28 GMT -5
I would say only, we all have our own flees to scratch. If you feel more comfortable with modern guns and ammo, I will applaud your choice. I don’t believe anyone isn’t serious about protection just because they prefer something different. Hal Swiggett was comfortable with a 22lr along with others... (https://shootists.org/letter.htm)
I prefer a double action revolver... because I haven’t the time to really master the single action and for me the double action is the best choice for me. I have tried semiautos, and carrying one or two of various makes and models revealed to me issues that I wouldn’t want to deal with that are simply not present with a revolver. So, for me, I choose what I like and fits my personality. Only semi-auto I carry on a regular basis is a 22lr pocket gun... Taurus at that. Got a lot of grief for that, but I like it and for MY reasons it is a great gun.... for me...
Again, I think your choice is great. I remember in my ccw class an older gentleman I’d say in his 80s was taking the class with us. He was shooting a Ruger Bearcat... single action... 22... checks all the boxes of what not to do I guess. But he hit the target the same as the rest of us. Slower maybe to reload and move, but he was out there doing it... all that matters in my way of thinking.
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Post by Cholla on Aug 5, 2019 21:55:04 GMT -5
There's always going to be those among us who insist that semi-auto's are superior in any case. I completely disagree and maintain that the FIRST shot is the most important.
I've been shooting a Colt Gov't Model 45 ACP since I was about 12 years old (almost 45 years now) when my Dad allowed me to keep his under my bed, and have had one of my own for over 35 years. But I love SA's and that's what I shoot and the type handgun with which I am most proficient. So to tell me a semi is better is foolish. Besides, I don't like the idea of two-piece handguns and that is exactly what one has when they carry a semi. Lose, damage or drop a magazine and you have yourself one really slow single shot handgun.
Cholla
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Post by papacharlie on Aug 6, 2019 6:28:12 GMT -5
I don't think there is only one answer to this question. Everyone has a different idea of what is best. I think it comes down to what are you most comfortable with. Because when it comes right down to it, when you pull that weapon in that instance it boils down to muscle memory. You won't have time to think about it, it will have to be second nature. The gun you can do that with is the best gun.
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