awp101
.401 Bobcat
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Post by awp101 on Jul 13, 2019 23:04:35 GMT -5
LGS has a New Service on consignment. 5” or 5.5” barrel stamped New Service.45, lanyard loop, what little finish it has is a brown patina, well worn wood grips. I was in a hurry so no idea if there’s any matching numbers but I did notice a lack of sn on the back of the cylinder like a Smith has but I don’t know if a Colt should have one there or not.
There’s some endshake present that feels like it could be shimmed out as well as some cylinder play with the hammer down and also at full cock, I know Colts lock up differently than a Smith but I’m not sure how much play is normal and when it’s expected.
Thanks!
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Post by needsmostuff on Jul 14, 2019 9:54:27 GMT -5
To check a Colt DA for cylinder play . Cock it,,,, let the hammer down, and hold the trigger back ,,,, as in just fired before resetting the trigger. Cylinder should be tight ,,,any degree of looseness with the trigger is held back is wear. Not horrible (after all the gun is 100 years old )but the degree is up to you. After trigger is released the cylinder will return to having some minor looseness.
Another test done "Colt Way" is timing lock up . Often Colts will come up a little short when slowly cocked . While this is not right ,it is very common and not horribly wrong. To check for safe lock up use the same slow cock . Even if it does not completely lock into battery, when you pull the trigger and let the hammer down it should pop into locked at the last second.
Of course check the cyl. will not counter -rotate after the fireing sequence.
And remember , New Services are getting pretty few and far between. At least around here.
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awp101
.401 Bobcat
TANSTAAFL
Posts: 2,632
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Post by awp101 on Jul 14, 2019 19:30:06 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll keep all this in mind when I go back in a day or two. There were a couple of other things that caught my eye so if the NS doesn't get the nod it's no big deal.
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Post by Frank V on Jul 14, 2019 21:54:57 GMT -5
Hope it's a good buy for you. Let us know.
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Post by ddixie884 on Jul 15, 2019 0:41:22 GMT -5
I like NS Colts a lot...........
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awp101
.401 Bobcat
TANSTAAFL
Posts: 2,632
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Post by awp101 on Jul 15, 2019 7:20:56 GMT -5
I like NS Colts a lot........... I fell hard into the S&W camp early on so Colt's aren't a big draw for me but therein lies part of my dilemma. It's not very often I run into one of the big .45 Smiths or Colts and when I do they're spendy. This one is tagged at $600 but I'm thinking something in the low $500 range could get it but I'm only interested if it's something I can actually shoot, even if it's only CAS level loads. I've even got 100-200 pieces of Autorim brass I can use for really light loads (at least I think I can).
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Post by deaconkc on Jul 15, 2019 13:31:18 GMT -5
awp, S&W N frame junkie here too. I have a NS in .45ACP and it is every bit as nice as my N frames. Works fine with the AR stuff too.
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awp101
.401 Bobcat
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Posts: 2,632
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Post by awp101 on Aug 24, 2019 22:47:38 GMT -5
I didn't get back like I thought I would and the NS sort of slipped my mind. For some reason it came back to mind a couple of days ago so I stopped in today. Checking cylinder play and end shake the proper way this time, I found nothing of concern. Locks up tight on all 6 chambers and any end shake is minimal at best. Did a little haggling and it followed my home for less than $550 OTD. No pics but will get some ASAP. 4.5" straight taper barrel (no shoulder where it screws into the frame), SN is in the 65,000 range which puts it roughly in the 1914 time frame, smooth wood grips without medallions instead of the correct hard rubber, replacement/repop lanyard ring, most of the markings have been buffed out or otherwise worn away but it locks up tight and has a pretty nice bore. The cylinder closes with .45 Colt snap caps in the charge holes but not with .45 Autorim. But it gets more interesting. The barrel is marked "New Service .45". Or so I thought. Under my 10X loupe, what I though was a ding just after the ".45" was more lettering that's been scrubbed. Most likely it's "New Service .455 Eley" but there are no visible Commonwealth markings. I was digging around the interwebs looking for info and pictures and came across an interesting tidbit from this cruffler.com article: I'd already pulled the grips and seen a capital "E" but had no idea what it might indicate and I presumed any other markings I couldn't see had been buffed away. My working thesis at this point is it was a private purchase sidearm for a British or Canadian officer. IIRC Colt gets $100 or so for a factory letter. I'm thinking hard about lettering this one.
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awp101
.401 Bobcat
TANSTAAFL
Posts: 2,632
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Post by awp101 on Aug 25, 2019 9:53:43 GMT -5
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Post by ddixie884 on Aug 26, 2019 16:59:03 GMT -5
That 4 1/2" barrel would have been a Xtra bonus if I had found it. The 5 1/2 is a lot more common and doesn't balance as well for me......
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Post by boolitdesigner on Aug 26, 2019 18:50:53 GMT -5
The cylinder closes with .45 Colt snap caps in the charge holes but not with .45 Autorim. Most likely it's "New Service .455 Eley" but there are no visible Commonwealth markings. That's a .455 Eley. You can use .455 Webley Mk1 or Mk2 brass.... difference being the Mk1 is about a 0.1" longer than the Mk2. Starline has the .455 Webley Mk2 brass ready to load. You have to alter either 45 Colt or 45 Scofield (better choice) brass to make the Mk2. Altering involves trimming and thinning the case rim from the front. Bullets should be the 265 gr. hollow base. RCBS has a single cavity mold and MP molds has 2 or 4 cavity. Lee has .455 Webley dies or you can cobble loads with a mixture of 45 ACP and 45 Colt dies. The Mk1 brass is easier to load and usually is more accurate due to less cylinder jump. Loads with that bullet should be just under 700 fps.
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awp101
.401 Bobcat
TANSTAAFL
Posts: 2,632
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Post by awp101 on Aug 26, 2019 21:16:21 GMT -5
That 4 1/2" barrel would have been a Xtra bonus if I had found it. The 5 1/2 is a lot more common and doesn't balance as well for me...... It's really confirmed my preference for 5" and under barrels. As big as it is, it seems to balance very nicely for me and the action is smooooth. That's a .455 Eley. You can use .455 Webley Mk1 or Mk2 brass.... difference being the Mk1 is about a 0.1" longer than the Mk2. Starline has the .455 Webley Mk2 brass ready to load. You have to alter either 45 Colt or 45 Scofield (better choice) brass to make the Mk2. Altering involves trimming and thinning the case rim from the front. Bullets should be the 265 gr. hollow base. RCBS has a single cavity mold and MP molds has 2 or 4 cavity. Lee has .455 Webley dies or you can cobble loads with a mixture of 45 ACP and 45 Colt dies. The Mk1 brass is easier to load and usually is more accurate due to less cylinder jump. Loads with that bullet should be just under 700 fps. I haven't slugged anything yet but is there any reason why CAS level .45 Colt won't work since it chambers?
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Post by ddixie884 on Aug 27, 2019 14:59:31 GMT -5
With the early style frame and the straight taper barrel, it should be handloaded for like a colt SAA.
Edit; Try a grip adapter like a Tyler or a Pachmayer. I think it makes a near perfect "handle"......
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Post by boolitdesigner on Aug 27, 2019 17:26:17 GMT -5
That's a .455 Eley. You can use .455 Webley Mk1 or Mk2 brass.... difference being the Mk1 is about a 0.1" longer than the Mk2. Starline has the .455 Webley Mk2 brass ready to load. You have to alter either 45 Colt or 45 Scofield (better choice) brass to make the Mk2. Altering involves trimming and thinning the case rim from the front. Bullets should be the 265 gr. hollow base. RCBS has a single cavity mold and MP molds has 2 or 4 cavity. Lee has .455 Webley dies or you can cobble loads with a mixture of 45 ACP and 45 Colt dies. The Mk1 brass is easier to load and usually is more accurate due to less cylinder jump. Loads with that bullet should be just under 700 fps. I haven't slugged anything yet but is there any reason why CAS level .45 Colt won't work since it chambers? That's an early New Service, which is stronger than a Webley top break in any configuration. I typically do not load cartridges for an era gun hotter than it took in the first place....and that is what you're suggesting. If you do, stay with the original ballistics of the cartridge it was made for, plus you're probably going to find it has oversize to you cylinder throats and barrel dimensions,,,, hollow base bullets ensure accuracy in those cases. It would probably take (for a good while) the load you suggest, but I wouldn't do that.
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Post by needsmostuff on Aug 28, 2019 10:04:14 GMT -5
If you look very closely at this picture you can see where ELEY was scrubbed out right after where it says 45. Maybe you guys that have a 45 Eley or a BSR 38S&W can tell me . Have you actually slugged a barrel ? I have always wondered if Colt or S&W actually bored barrels .002 or .003 larger for the Brits / or did the give them standard 38 or 45 barrels and a British configured cylinder. I know the rifling is shallow , maybe to compensate.
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