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Post by bradshaw on Apr 30, 2019 8:45:55 GMT -5
“While shooting single action I would cock the hammer while letting the revolver return to rest and readjusting the grip could result in accidentally touching the trigger.” ----matt56
*****
What you describe is the farthest thing in the world from a “double tap.” Realizing, Matt, you are highlighting misinformation, not creating it, we should define double-tap. The term comes from one or another discipline in defensive pistol craft, based on a doctrine of multiple hits as fast as possible. It may have been influenced by scoring of the 9mm Luger as inferior to the .45 ACP, with a pair of 9mm’s on target to equal one .45 ACP. The lighter the recoil, the faster a repeat shot. “Double tap” is a pleasant-sound way to describe mashing the trigger of a single action auto as fast as possible TWICE. One may fire two from a double action revolver or double action auto, however the term is inaccurate and grammatically rotten. Jeff Cooper apparently viewed the term “double tap” with contempt, preferring “controlled pair.”
A deer tracker would learn quick that a double stack magazine of 9mm Luger doesn’t equal ONE .44 Magnum.
Having watched some miserable “double tapping” in qualification shooting, I see the language as reinforcement for poor marksmanship.
At the same time you describe a dexterity I cannot duplicate: to cock a Model 29 .44 Magnum coming out of recoil. My thumb is around the grip, my support thumb overlaps or lays beside---- no way either thumb under recoil abandons FOLLOW THROUGH to grab the hammer. I doubt STRAIGHT LIGHTNING boxers Sugar Ray Leonard and Muhammad Ali possessed the hand speed to pull that caper.
Trigger finger off trigger as hammer is cocked.
Safety note: Push trigger finger against front of trigger guard.... removes finger from trigger. There are times the technique is valuable for IMMEDIATE ACTION----a small revolver for esxample----but I would not teach it to a fool. David Bradshaw
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dmize
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,825
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Post by dmize on Apr 30, 2019 13:20:48 GMT -5
While I don't see how it could happen EASILY with a 44 mag there are several videos of people almost shooting themselves in the head with 500 X Frames. One where the womans hair get "fluffed". It is possible that if someone limp wrists those guns,and I suppose a 44 mag could also that the trigger is pulled and the recoil is so fast and violent it unloads the trigger finger enough that the shooter makes another trigger pull without realizing it.
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Post by cas on Apr 30, 2019 18:05:56 GMT -5
Ah sooo... you're not talking about double taps, you're talking about malfunctioning guns. youtu.be/MG2qd_9pfSYRevolver bump fire.
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
Posts: 911
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Post by shorty500 on Apr 30, 2019 18:40:44 GMT -5
I got WAY TOO relaxed once shooting groups over the chrono! The gun - an 8” Colt Anoconda, the load was very heavy burning a lot of ww680 under JDJs dual crimp 325grainer. End result- everyone heard what seemed to be one continuous roar as the 1st round went down range and the 2nd thru the roof over our firing line. After much thought I believe with the relaxed grip and heavy recoil as gun shifted in my hands that the double action reset while my mind was still in trigger press mode.
Never duplicated that experience even with stupid level loads in the Xframe .500 shortbarrels
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dmize
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,825
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Post by dmize on Apr 30, 2019 20:41:34 GMT -5
I got WAY TOO relaxed once shooting groups over the chrono! The gun - an 8” Colt Anoconda, the load was very heavy burning a lot of ww680 under JDJs dual crimp 325grainer. End result- everyone heard what seemed to be one continuous roar as the 1st round went down range and the 2nd thru the roof over our firing line. After much thought I believe with the relaxed grip and heavy recoil as gun shifted in my hands that the double action reset while my mind was still in trigger press mode. Never duplicated that experience even with stupid level loads in the Xframe .500 shortbarrels I must note. The X Frame near disasters I have seen were 95% women that didn't look like they knew how to hold a 22. And some asshole guy handed them a X Frame because they thought it was "funny".
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 30, 2019 21:08:09 GMT -5
I got WAY TOO relaxed once shooting groups over the chrono! The gun - an 8” Colt Anoconda, the load was very heavy burning a lot of ww680 under JDJs dual crimp 325grainer. End result- everyone heard what seemed to be one continuous roar as the 1st round went down range and the 2nd thru the roof over our firing line. After much thought I believe with the relaxed grip and heavy recoil as gun shifted in my hands that the double action reset while my mind was still in trigger press mode. Never duplicated that experience even with stupid level loads in the Xframe .500 shortbarrels ***** shorty500.... if what you say is true, and you paint a clear picture----2 shots from an Anaconda on one pull----we’re talking’ MECHANISM, not your technique. I am not familiar with the Colt Anaconda, heard good although hardly technical things about it. This belated foray into the .44 Mag game must have expanded on Colt’s work to assemble a double action without the hand fitting in in Colt’s monument Python. The Anaconda may have a weakly sprung BOLT, or it’s geometry may conduce to CYLINDER FLOAT when loaded to the wall. The Colt rotates clockwise.Providing bore is rifled with left hand twist, BULLET TORQUE acts to rotate frame clockwise. (See explanation of CYLINDER FLOAT in Double-Action Revolvers.) Now, back to the mystical marksman who “double-tapped” two .44 Mags from a Model 29 into 2-inches at half a football field, BULLROAR! One cannot double-tap a double action. And, if his handle on English is severely lacking, and he fired 2-shots with a single pull on his 29, the answer is BULLROAR! The nature of cylinder float is for a secondary primer strike in recoil. I think your Anaconda suffered CYLINDER FLOAT, big time. Thank you for your report, David Bradshaw
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
Posts: 911
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Post by shorty500 on May 1, 2019 4:26:52 GMT -5
I got WAY TOO relaxed once shooting groups over the chrono! The gun - an 8” Colt Anoconda, the load was very heavy burning a lot of ww680 under JDJs dual crimp 325grainer. End result- everyone heard what seemed to be one continuous roar as the 1st round went down range and the 2nd thru the roof over our firing line. After much thought I believe with the relaxed grip and heavy recoil as gun shifted in my hands that the double action reset while my mind was still in trigger press mode. Never duplicated that experience even with stupid level loads in the Xframe .500 shortbarrels ***** shorty500.... if what you say is true, and you paint a clear picture----2 shots from an Anaconda on one pull----we’re talking’ MECHANISM, not your technique. I am not familiar with the Colt Anaconda, heard good although hardly technical things about it. This belated foray into the .44 Mag game must have expanded on Colt’s work to assemble a double action without the hand fitting in in Colt’s monument Python. The Anaconda may have a weakly sprung BOLT, or it’s geometry may conduce to CYLINDER FLOAT when loaded to the wall. The Colt rotates clockwise.Providing bore is rifled with left hand twist, BULLET TORQUE acts to rotate frame clockwise. (See explanation of CYLINDER FLOAT in Double-Action Revolvers.) Now, back to the mystical marksman who “double-tapped” two .44 Mags from a Model 29 into 2-inches at half a football field, BULLROAR! One cannot double-tap a double action. And, if his handle on English is severely lacking, and he fired 2-shots with a single pull on his 29, the answer is BULLROAR! The nature of cylinder float is for a secondary primer strike in recoil. I think your Anaconda suffered CYLINDER FLOAT, big time. Thank you for your report, David Bradshaw Yet it never happened again David, that’s what always perplexed me! Am well aware of CYLINDER FLOAT, and what weak sprung bolts do.
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
Posts: 911
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Post by shorty500 on May 1, 2019 18:55:52 GMT -5
I got WAY TOO relaxed once shooting groups over the chrono! The gun - an 8” Colt Anoconda, the load was very heavy burning a lot of ww680 under JDJs dual crimp 325grainer. End result- everyone heard what seemed to be one continuous roar as the 1st round went down range and the 2nd thru the roof over our firing line. After much thought I believe with the relaxed grip and heavy recoil as gun shifted in my hands that the double action reset while my mind was still in trigger press mode. Never duplicated that experience even with stupid level loads in the Xframe .500 shortbarrels ***** shorty500.... if what you say is true, and you paint a clear picture----2 shots from an Anaconda on one pull----we’re talking’ MECHANISM, not your technique. I am not familiar with the Colt Anaconda, heard good although hardly technical things about it. This belated foray into the .44 Mag game must have expanded on Colt’s work to assemble a double action without the hand fitting in in Colt’s monument Python. The Anaconda may have a weakly sprung BOLT, or it’s geometry may conduce to CYLINDER FLOAT when loaded to the wall. The Colt rotates clockwise.Providing bore is rifled with left hand twist, BULLET TORQUE acts to rotate frame clockwise. (See explanation of CYLINDER FLOAT in Double-Action Revolvers.) Now, back to the mystical marksman who “double-tapped” two .44 Mags from a Model 29 into 2-inches at half a football field, BULLROAR! One cannot double-tap a double action. And, if his handle on English is severely lacking, and he fired 2-shots with a single pull on his 29, the answer is BULLROAR! The nature of cylinder float is for a secondary primer strike in recoil. I think your Anaconda suffered CYLINDER FLOAT, big time. Thank you for your report, David Bradshaw Your opinion is highly respected David! But notice what I said- I believe due the relaxed grip that under recoil the gun moved enough 5hat my trigger finger allowed the trigger to reset and with my mind concentrating on trigger press that it was I think a double where under recoil the trigger was allowed to reset and I unconsciously pulled it the second time. I didn’t feel anything but one long seemingly continuous recoil cycle from hell as that big slug was running 1400fps. The crony onl6 caught 5he 1st shot and there was @ new .430 nominal diameter hole in our roof. There was zero damage to gun, had never been any evidence before or after of cylinder float, dual firing pin strikes etc etc
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Post by bradshaw on May 1, 2019 20:36:32 GMT -5
shorty500.... indeed, you may have fired your Anaconda, RESET and fired again instantly. In which case, no cylinder float. A still no double-tap.
As a “double-tap” involves the INTENTION to fire 2 shots with the flick of the finger on a short-reset trigger.
The Anaconda may not be a candidate for cylinder float. David Bradshaw
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
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Post by shorty500 on May 3, 2019 4:24:02 GMT -5
shorty500.... indeed, you may have fired your Anaconda, RESET and fired again instantly. In which case, no cylinder float. A still no double-tap. As a “double-tap” involves the INTENTION to fire 2 shots with the flick of the finger on a short-reset trigger. The Anaconda may not be a candidate for cylinder float. David Bradshaw And that’s exectly what I had originally tried to convey- not cylinder float and not a double tap because as you have stated there is real double on a DA revolver, , was just relaying a story that might shed light on what may have occurred in OPs story
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Post by Alaskan454 on May 4, 2019 21:39:03 GMT -5
It is definitely possible to shoot tight groups at speed. I regularly hit 8/8 in DA from 50-100 yards on a 10" plate, occasionally farther. <4" groups, however, are not easily achievable at speed. I personally know of perhaps two people capable of the task, and a third by reputation only. I am a fairly competent DA revolver shooter and I wouldn't bet on doing that more than once. I've both hit 300 yard steel on the first try, and also emptied a cylinder without a hit. The longer/tighter the shot, the less humans who are up to the task.
Also, sounds like this case was an accidental discharge, not a controlled follow up shot.
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