|
|
Post by bradshaw on Jun 16, 2018 19:13:23 GMT -5
Dick’s on board now. Let the chips fall where they may. Biggest news from Sixshor’s shooting at Raton, his shells extract smooth @ 94 Fahrenheit. All of these steps factor our evaluation. The Bradshaw-Martin 194 intends as a bullet not for all seasons, but for two important ones, downrange accuracy with performance on game.My appreciation to Dick Thompson for throwing in as one as a performance shooter from the era which brings us to today. To continue we throw lead.
David Bradshaw
|
|
|
|
Post by Lee Martin on Jun 18, 2018 19:08:33 GMT -5
Martin Shooting Session #5 _________________________________________ I tried IMR 4198 with the 194 gr Bradshaw-Martin and it performed well. I expected ignition impulse to be slower, but it felt pretty much like 4227. 22.0 grs averaged 1,435 fps 23.0 grs averaged 1,489 fps Lab Radar results for the 23.0 gr load: Muzzle = 1,489 25 yards = 1,413 50 yards = 1,349 75 yards = 1,280 100 yards = 1,237 The velocity drop as a percent of muzzle speed was more than my Blue Dot load. The bullet was still faster at 100 yards, but showed quicker deceleration. I also tried 13.0 grs of Blue Dot and averaged 1,282. Accuracy was ho-hum. Most five-shot groups were in the 7 to 9 inch range. However, 4198 printed very tight.   22.0 grs of 4198:  23.0 grs of 4198 - this is one of the best groups I’ve had from this revolver. You’ll notice POI is about the same as 18.5 of 4227.  Another group using 18.5 grs/IMR 4227:  To recap my hold, I put the front sight on the bottom edge of the plate. The blade is narrow enough to give a slither of light on either side of the post. This enables fairly precise holds shot-to-shot -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
|
|
|
Post by onegoodshot on Jun 18, 2018 21:19:31 GMT -5
What primers and brass are you using?
|
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Jun 18, 2018 21:41:35 GMT -5
More straight shooting from Lee. Note Lee’s mention of velocity dropping faster @ 100 yards with the IMR 4198 load than with his Blue Dot load.
Velocity average
* 23/IMR 4198=1,489 fps. Loss @ 100 yds=252 fps.
* 13.0/Alliant Blue Dot=1,282 fps. (Don’t know velocity loss @ 100 yes, but it is less.)
High velocity sheds velocity faster. Air compression and drag is greater on a projectile at high speed. The rule applies to all projectiles. A bullet started below or at the speed of sound----roughly 1,100 fps----sheds velocity slowly. Nevertheless, the bullet started faster continues faster, wind lass less time to bend it, and gravity has less time to pull it down.
IMR 4198
Improved Military Rifle powder is “stick powder” made without nitroglycerine, therefore a single base propellant. It meters roughly through most measures, yet remains one of the standout accuracy powders on the quick end of medium burn rate rifle powders. IMR 4198 was my first choice for loading the 7mm TCU when it was introduced in 1979. (While I later switched to the king of medium powders----IMR 4895 & H4895----IMR 4198 handled championship competition under 140 to 160 grain bullets in the 7TCU.)
Sometime after setting the Revolver Aggregate Record in 1983 with the KS411N “Silver Hornpipe” (stainless Super Blackhawk .44 Mag 10-1/2” with bull barrel, target front sight, and Maximum ejector), I bumped the record up a few points with a Dan Wesson Arms Model 40 Vent 8-inch Silhouette (M40 V8S). The load consisted of Speer .357 200 grain TMJ (electroplated Total Metal Jacket) compressing 22/IMR 4198 in .357 Maximum brass, with Federal 205M small rifle primer. A downside of the 4198 load, it produced a long BARREL TIME----requiring perfect follow though. I abandoned the load a couple of tournaments later, as it had no forgiveness for a lapse in technique. I did show the value of relaxing under nerve pressure to do the best shooting. Velocity of the 200 TMJ averaged 1,258 fps from the 8-inch Dan Wesson, modest velocity for a .357 Maximum. Recoil is more of a WHOOSH than a BANG.
As Lee and I discussed powders for the 194 SWC GC, I brought up IMR 4198 as “must try.” Now, Lee gives us a first look at the Bradshaw-Martin 194 field with IMR 4198. Discussing recoil impressions with Lee this evening, sounds like our 194 may exhibit faster barrel time over 4198 than did the Speer 200 TMJ (Total Metal Jacket). The powder coat 194 departs the 10-1/2” Ruger 200 fps faster than the Speer 200 TMJ departs the 8-inch Dan Wesson----same powder and charge.
While IMR 4227 and Hodgdon 4227----not a lick of difference----remain the most versatile for 180 to 200 grain bullets our powder evaluations continue.
These 100 yard groups by Lee indicate a bullet on track.
David Bradshaw
|
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Jun 18, 2018 21:45:06 GMT -5
What primers and brass are you using? ***** Lee put his computer to bed and is casting at this moment. He’s loading Starling .357 Maximum brass with CCI 400 primers. So far, no small rifle magnum primers. David Bradshaw |
|
|
|
Post by sixshot on Jun 18, 2018 21:56:42 GMT -5
Very good & very consistent shooting Lee! For anyone new to this post Lee's explanation of his sight picture is key, also the color of his target & the background behind his target is also key. You have black iron sights with a bit of daylight on each side & down range a white square target with a bright green background, perfect setup for a good shooter with good eyes to shoot tight, consistent groups. Change any of that & groups can open up for the iron sight shooter but the knowledgeable shooter knows how to set up his gun, loads, sights, target & background & it takes all of those things to shoot like Lee & David.
Dick
|
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Jun 19, 2018 7:31:11 GMT -5
Dick scoped one of his Maximums with the EGW (Evolution Gun Works) base. Others on Singleactions also recommend the EGW base. A well made Weaver-type base (aka Picatinny) enables the shooter to painlessly swap optics. Rings with separate clamps for scope and base are required. Today I would opt for the EGW base over a Leupold Dual Dovetail, unless the revolver was d&t’d for the Leupold. Dick Thompson will push our bullet in his own way.
David Bradshaw
|
|
dmize
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,834
|
Post by dmize on Jun 19, 2018 13:40:28 GMT -5
"Man, I am loving this thread. In the early 1980s I had a Contender with a 357 Maxi 10 Bull Barrel.... Oh, to find an Old Contender and some barrels, and go back to those days.... Been looking for a couple of years locally for a early contender frame and some barrels. I sold the Contender as the 44 Mag and those wooden grips were brutal. In those days I thought all loads had to be driven to the firewall.” ----ezekiel38 ***** As you allude, its low bore axis and profane grip made firing .44 Mag a vicious experience. Bradshaw Im glad to read you saying that. My brother has an older Contender that had a 44 mag barrel thrown in with the Match 22LR. After I shot the 44,he will not touch it and I never ever wanted to own one. |
|
|
|
Post by sixshot on Jun 19, 2018 19:53:48 GMT -5
Got out to the range today but the rifle range was busy so I had to set up my Bog Pod with the PSR rest & do more shooting at 100 yds. I still have run this load over the chronograph but expect it to be the same as what Lee & David are getting with 18.5 grs of 4227, could be a slight difference because of different primers & altitude, I'll clock it soon. I set up my portable target stand in the pistol area that has been flooded for the last 3 months & stapled a target up. I had wanted to shoot off the bench but today it wasn't going to happen, the Bog Pod is pretty good, not a bench but not bad. I do wish my black center had been a bit bigger, my 4X scope needed a little bigger aiming point. Shooting off the Bog Pod I was seeing a little bit of my heart beat, not much but it doesn't take much at 100 yds. On the first target you will see I was a bit high & left & 4 of the 5 was in 3" & the 5th made it 3 3/4". Not bad but it will do better. I made a scope adjustment & this time shot with my left eye which I usually do a bit better with. This time I got about the same size group, 4 shots just under 3" & one shot went out again for some reason I was getting good clean breaks on the trigger each time, I seldom ever make a bad squeeze from the rest. The scope did move down but I got no change left to right, I made another windage adjustment & it started raining & I gathered up for the day. What you can see from my truck has all been under water for over 3 months, it's drained since I have been in New Mexico. Hopefully I can get on the rifle range in the next couple of days & shoot. That range has also been under water & we've only been able to shoot to 100 yds, now we can shoot out to 200 yds. Load as always has been Martin-Bradshaw 190 SWC, 18.5 grs of 4227 & a Remington 7 1/2 primer in Starline brass. I'll kill something with this load this fall.     Dick |
|
|
|
Post by frankenfab on Jun 19, 2018 20:05:11 GMT -5
What a great thread!
I scored NIB 7.5 and 10.5 Maximums a few years ago. Going to get them out again.
I would still buy one more Maximum if Lipsey's would get a run of new ones going.
|
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Jun 19, 2018 21:59:38 GMT -5
What a great thread! I scored NIB 7.5 and 10.5 Maximums a few years ago. Going to get them out again. I would still buy one more Maximum if Lipsey's would get a run of new ones going. ***** Don’t let my preference for the 10-1/2-inch Ruger Maximum deter you from checking out the 7-1/2-inch. Note Dan Wesson Arms’ response to the Ruger: DWA stretched the M44 .44 Mag to accommodate the Maximum, elongating the cylinder in the process. However, to meet the IHMSA 4-pound limit on PRODUCTION revolvers, DWA had to settle on an 8-inch barrel. Even then it didn’t make weight, so DWA milled off most of the shroud underlug, counterbored the barrel channel in the shroud, and cut slots in the shroud. The revolver is a wonder of accuracy, but the M40/ 740 won’t win a velocity race against the Ruger; not while holding on to the accuracy game. As a hunting revolver, the Ruger draws faster and points slicker. When dueling is legalized, I’ll bring the Ruger. Naturally, with 10-1/2” barrel. Just don’t let my inclination sway a choice you must make yourself on the Firing Line. David Bradshaw |
|
|
|
Post by Lee Martin on Jun 21, 2018 19:02:10 GMT -5
Dick - I'm eager to see how this bullet does for you with an optic. Was talking with David the other night about scopes. My Maximum will stay iron sighted, but I believe 18.5 of 4227 could do 2" at 100 with glass. It has done 4 - 5" at that distance; my eyes are definitely a limiting factor. Keep us posted. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
|
|
|
Post by sixshot on Jun 21, 2018 22:53:53 GMT -5
Lee, I switched to a 2 1/2- 8 Leupold today, didn't get a chance to shoot it because there were some Rock Chucks calling me bad names (10 of them) so it will have to wait until Saturday. I need to shoot from one of our good solid benches now, shooting from the Bog Pod I'm getting some stringing from grip issues, just enough to open the groups each time.
Dick
|
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Jun 22, 2018 6:43:09 GMT -5
Lee, I switched to a 2 1/2- 8 Leupold today, didn't get a chance to shoot it because there were some Rock Chucks calling me bad names (10 of them) so it will have to wait until Saturday. I need to shoot from one of our good solid benches now, shooting from the Bog Pod I'm getting some stringing from grip issues, just enough to open the groups each time. Dick ***** Dick.... the Leupold 2.5-8x32mm Long Eye Relief (LER) really deserves a simple Mil Dot reticle to simplify windage and elevation calls. The Freedom Arms M83 .44 Jim Stroh rebarreled for me wears the Leupold 2.5-8x with dot reticle, fine for pinpointing a shot, but a bit abstract for repeat windage and elevation holds. Another reason I favor Leupold target turrets (although an impediment to holstering). For an effective rest which allows me to stand, face square to the target, I throw a couple of 2x8 or 2x10 planks across the bed rail of my pickup, topped with a static rest. Always prefer to bag or rest the Maximum barrel, with a sandbag or stack of gloves, etc., under the butt. Wind does not buffet the Cummins Dodge like it does a car or faux pickup, so I squeeze assured the work is strictly up to me. My Maximum has twice printed 4x5 into 1.9-inches @ 100 yards with the irons, each with a leaker, still under 4”. Of course I want to know that the crap-shoot is me, not the bullet. The 5x5=4.6” @ 200 yards has 4x5=2.6” @ 200 yards. If we ever hold another Safari Silhouette Shoot and I have the Maximum with Bradshaw-Martin 194 on hand, it will be in hand on the firing line. David Bradshaw |
|
|
|
Post by sixshot on Jun 22, 2018 12:52:30 GMT -5
David, tomorrow after the rifle match is over I hope to be able to get on one of the concrete benches & get serious now that I have the 2.5X8 Leupold sitting on top. I'm anxious to really get down to business with this load before I move on to any others. I'll zero with some of my 201 gr cast PC slugs to get close, they are loaded with the same powder charge. Then I'll switch to the Bradshaw-Martin 194's, mine again are weighing 190 grs.
Not sure if we can shoot out to 200 yet, the range was still flooded past 100 last week when I left for New Mexico but I heard the city was going to pump it. Hopefully photo's forthcoming!
Dick
|
|
