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Post by seminolewind on Feb 19, 2019 12:50:29 GMT -5
Thank you Mr. Bradshaw. As I mentioned, I've just started loading for a Ruger 357 Maximum. I'm sorting through some issues with the gun, one of which is inconsistent cylinder throats. A .357" jacketed bullet will drop through 3 chambers, but I can barely push one through the other 3 chambers. Would having all chambers honed to .3585" be advisable? So far the target is telling me this gun can be made to shoot better.
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Post by bradshaw on Feb 19, 2019 13:36:17 GMT -5
Thank you Mr. Bradshaw. As I mentioned, I've just started loading for a Ruger 357 Maximum. I'm sorting through some issues with the gun, one of which is inconsistent cylinder throats. A .357" jacketed bullet will drop through 3 chambers, but I can barely push one through the other 3 chambers. Would having all chambers honed to .3585" be advisable? So far the target is telling me this gun can be made to shoot better. ***** My experience with Rugers indicates little if any variation in diameter of CHAMBER EXIT HOLES (throats). I use a variety of bullets to check throat fit, jacketed and lead. I try a few from the same box. I am not aware of Maximum throats which are too tight. If you were to hone, I’d hold at .3580-inch. Be sure a burr is not the cause of a hang-up. Can you get specific on accuracy? with: 1) Load* bullet * powder * powder charge * case * primer 2) Distance* Dry Fire----like you mean business----before each group. 3 “shots” is ok. * 25 yards is good for first sight dope and ok if that’s all you have. * 50 yards represents the distance at which I begin to see what’s happening. If you are not used to this distance, try it anyway (if available). * 100 yards demands technique, which in any case must be developed. 100 yards really tests the bullet. 3) PositionTest a good rest position with at least 5 dry-fires. There should be next-to-no movement of sight picture at HAMMER FALL. Human accuracy depends of FOLLOW THROUGH. Release trigger slowly. 4) Group* Minimum 4 shots (until you really know gun & load). * Measure center-to-center 5x5 shots, and best 4x5. 5) Keep notes * notebook, or * write data on targets FORCING CONE* If the forcing cone is short it is the 11-dergree angle I recommended. * If the forcing cone is deep it probably is the 5-degree angle selected by Bill Ruger, Jr. My gripe with the 5-gree cone is not the angle. My gripe concerns the depth to which most of these cones were cut. To have the same ROOT DIAMETER, a narrow-degree come must be cut deeper. David Bradshaw |
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Post by sixshot on Feb 19, 2019 14:14:39 GMT -5
My testing with the Bradshaw/Martin bullet is on hold for a while until the snow melts a bit, I'd need a snow plow on my truck to get to any of the pistol bays, either that or snow shoes!
Dick
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Post by seminolewind on Feb 19, 2019 14:27:56 GMT -5
I apologise for the thread creep and thank you for your attention.
The gun is a new to me 10 1/2" with serial #600-024xx, in very good condition with barely a line of topstrap cutting. Forcing cone is 11 degrees and almost pristine. Deltapoint Pro mounted and zeroed at 50 yds.
Load is:
180 xtp
RP virgin brass (getting several splits)
19.0 gr 296
Rem 7 1/2 primers
1.890 oal
1425 fps chronoed
All groups are at 50 yds from bags on a benchrest. Very stable and consistent. Best groups are 5 x 3" with 4 x 2". My other revolvers with optics will do consistently better (5 x 2"), so I believe the Maximum will do better too. The Maximum spits jacket material occasionally, so I intend to address a timing issue also.
I haven't even started with cast bullets yet, so there's still much ground to cover before this gun goes hunting.
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Post by bradshaw on Feb 19, 2019 16:48:32 GMT -5
I apologise for the thread creep and thank you for your attention. The gun is a new to me 10 1/2" with serial #600-024xx, in very good condition with barely a line of topstrap cutting. Forcing cone is 11 degrees and almost pristine. Deltapoint Pro mounted and zeroed at 50 yds. Load is: 180 xtp RP virgin brass (getting several splits) 19.0 gr 296 Rem 7 1/2 primers 1.890 oal 1425 fps chronoed All groups are at 50 yds from bags on a benchrest. Very stable and consistent. Best groups are 5 x 3" with 4 x 2". My other revolvers with optics will do consistently better (5 x 2"), so I believe the Maximum will do better too. The Maximum spits jacket material occasionally, so I intend to address a timing issue also. I haven't even started with cast bullets yet, so there's still much ground to cover before this gun goes hunting. ***** seminolewind.... the Hornady 180 XTP is accurate, and should be perfectly workable for deer of many weights and dispositions. Save the Winchester 296 for other cartridges including .357, .41, and .44 Mag, along with certain “Ruger only” .45 Colt loads. For a reason I’ve never pinned down, 296/H110 (both are 296), is a very particular powder in the .357 Maximum. Hodgdon 4227 and IMR 4227 is the most versatile powder for bullets in the 180 to 200 grain range. You may find those 180 XTP’s reign in with 4227. If virgin Remington brass splits in the Ruger, I have to wonder whether the brass equals original Remington brass. Keep up the good work and report back. Please keep us tuned in, whether things go great or you hits sour notes. David Bradshaw |
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Post by Lee Martin on Feb 20, 2019 20:00:27 GMT -5
My testing with the Bradshaw/Martin bullet is on hold for a while until the snow melts a bit, I'd need a snow plow on my truck to get to any of the pistol bays, either that or snow shoes! Dick Hope the snow melts fast Dick. We're eager to get your impression of our bullet's performance at 100 yards and beyond. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by contender on Feb 20, 2019 22:55:09 GMT -5
My mold is ordered,, and I plan on working on it as well. I put this off long enough! Looking forward to it all!!!!
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Post by Lee Martin on Feb 25, 2019 21:50:08 GMT -5
Saturday I tried 20.0 and 21.0 grs of H110 with the 194 gr Bradshaw-Martin. To assess consistency, or lack thereof, I fired fifty of each load. Average of five shots: • 20.0 grs H110 – 1,636 fps • 21.0 grs H110 – 1,707 fps  H110 velocities are surprisingly fast. 22.0 grs gave nearly 1,800 fps from the 10.5” barrel. Backing off 2.0 grs still puts H110 ahead of other powders tested. Group sizes at 100 yards were no better or worse than 22.0. H110 just hasn’t printed as tight as 4227, 1680, or 4198. These two targets are the best for each load on the day. 20.0 grs H110  21.0 grs H110  On more than a few 5-shot strings, I could only land 3 or 4 on the steel. I felt good behind the gun and the wind flags were calm throughout. I’m hoping David again tries H110/W296 with our 194 gr. If we both fail to get it to group, we’ll move on. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by bradshaw on Feb 26, 2019 9:12:31 GMT -5
Win 296 & Hodgdon H10
Lee nails it with his shooing. While H110 delivers velocity plus with the Bradshaw-Martin 194, our groups @ 100 yards reinforce the old experience that Winchester 296/Hodgdon 110 is a very efficient, yet inaccurate propellant in the .357 Maximum. 296/H110 stands at the top for accuracy in the .357 Mag and .44 Magnum case. Which is to say, in these cartridges it shares top tier accuracy with IMR4227/H4227. Although faster and more load-sensitive, the old Hercules 2400 and its replacement Alliant 2400 share top tier accuracy as well.
IMR 4227 & H4227
Not only does IMR/H4227 make the transition to the longer .357 Maximum, its accuracy leaves 296/H110 behind.
Hercules 2400 & Alliant 2400
The Maximum can be made to scream with lighter bullets seated over 2400 in the .357 Maximum; Hercules and Alliant 2400 is the fastest powder I have put in the case. I would not load heavy bullets over 2400 unless I had no slower powder, and then throttle down a bit.
IMR 4198
IMR 4198 is the slowest powder I’ve loaded in the .357 Maximum. Incredible accuracy is possible with 4198 compressed under bullets 200 grain range, yet velocity cannot compete with 4227, let alone mighty-mite 296/H110.
A long powder column tends to be more sensitive to powder and load density than a “standard length” powder column.
I drove hours yesterday through opaque whiteouts. Wind velocities of 124 mph were recorded on Mount Mansfield in Vermont and 167 mph on Mount Washington in New Hampshire. Today breaks in bright sunlight, zero temps, no wind. Reckon I’d better take advantage of winter to catch up with Lee. Reckon I’ll duplicate Lee’s shaggy groups fired with H110. Lee’s excellent photos show accuracy of H110, not the accuracy of the .357 Maximum, not the accuracy of our bullet, and not the accuracy of Lee Martin.
Best overall performance with my handloads during development of the .357 Maximum came with IMR and Hodgdon 4227. Winchester 680 turned good accuracy and velocity (Accurate 1680 does the same thing). That Lee and I return to 4227 is as predictable as nightfall.
David Bradshaw
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Post by leftysixgun on Jun 21, 2019 14:48:52 GMT -5
I should be picking up my first Maximum hopefully late next week. I found a 7 1/2” gun that supposedly has around 100rds thru it.
I have this helpful tid bit to add for the 357 max group, lol. After ordering 200pcs of new Starline brass I looked for the appropriate MTM ammo box for my future max ammo. I discovered that MTM 223 ammo boxes work great!
Thats my helpful tid bit for now!
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Post by bradshaw on Jun 22, 2019 7:10:05 GMT -5
leftysixgun.... Singleactions member and Maximum collector Jack Coogan, handle Coogs, archives serial numbers of Blackhawk .357 Maximums is his quest to discern howe many 10-1/2” and how many 7-1/2" are out there, with serial number ranges.
I’m more interested isn whether your revolver has the 5-degree forcing cone promoted by Bill Ruger, Jr., or the 11-degree forcing cone which I pushed for. Blackhawk Maximums were assembled both ways, with both fitted to the first production gun assembled, my serial number 00018, pictured in this report.
Don’t forget to use small rifle primers, and to avoid all powders of fast and medium burn rate.
David Bradshaw
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Post by leftysixgun on Jun 22, 2019 8:02:23 GMT -5
leftysixgun.... Singleactions member and Maximum collector Jack Coogan, handle Coogs, archives serial numbers of Blackhawk .357 Maximums is his quest to discern howe many 10-1/2” and how many 7-1/2" are out there, with serial number ranges. I’m more interested isn whether your revolver has the 5-degree forcing cone promoted by Bill Ruger, Jr., or the 11-degree forcing cone which I pushed for. Blackhawk Maximums were assembled both ways, with both fitted to the first production gun assembled, my serial number 00018, pictured in this report. Don’t forget to use small rifle primers, and to avoid all powders of fast and medium burn rate. David Bradshaw Haha, Ive already been in touch with “Coogs”. Ill let you and Coogs know the details of the gun when it arrives. I cant guarantee its still in factory condition, I sure hope it is. The seller told be it was his fathers and he was a “certified Ruger collector” and a gunsmith. It supposedly only has 100rds thru it. Im not opposed to ordering and shooting the B-M 194 SWC boolit, but I am interested in a cast HP bullet design thats on the heavy side, 180-200gr class. I have a MiHa 180gr carbine mold (2 crimp groove and gas checked) that drops a 180gr solid and a 170gr HP. Ive also been looking at NOE molds website and he seems to have a few to choose from. Do you have any mold suggestions? |
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dmize
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,834
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Post by dmize on Jun 22, 2019 22:03:49 GMT -5
leftysixgun.... Singleactions member and Maximum collector Jack Coogan, handle Coogs, archives serial numbers of Blackhawk .357 Maximums is his quest to discern howe many 10-1/2” and how many 7-1/2" are out there, with serial number ranges. I’m more interested isn whether your revolver has the 5-degree forcing cone promoted by Bill Ruger, Jr., or the 11-degree forcing cone which I pushed for. Blackhawk Maximums were assembled both ways, with both fitted to the first production gun assembled, my serial number 00018, pictured in this report. Don’t forget to use small rifle primers, and to avoid all powders of fast and medium burn rate. David Bradshaw Haha, Ive already been in touch with “Coogs”. Ill let you and Coogs know the details of the gun when it arrives. I cant guarantee its still in factory condition, I sure hope it is. The seller told be it was his fathers and he was a “certified Ruger collector” and a gunsmith. It supposedly only has 100rds thru it. Im not opposed to ordering and shooting the B-M 194 SWC boolit, but I am interested in a cast HP bullet design thats on the heavy side, 180-200gr class. I have a MiHa 180gr carbine mold (2 crimp groove and gas checked) that drops a 180gr solid and a 170gr HP. Ive also been looking at NOE molds website and he seems to have a few to choose from. Do you have any mold suggestions? |
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Post by leftysixgun on Jun 22, 2019 22:10:25 GMT -5
I may have missed it, but what size is Lee’s steel plate?
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eskimo36
.375 Atomic
Oklahoma
Posts: 2,071
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Post by eskimo36 on Jun 23, 2019 8:08:12 GMT -5
Is anyone casting this design for sale ? I’d like to pick up a couple of hundred.
Curtis
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