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Post by Burnston on Nov 29, 2017 17:40:32 GMT -5
Good afternoon all,
My reloading experience is limited to about a year and a half, so it is very possible this is a simple fix that I'm missing. I've been attempting a load from Skelton's book composed of a 158gr EK style bullet with 13.8gr of 2400 in a .38 casing.
My RCBS Dies say .38/.357 but I've been unable to crimp a .38 casing after pursuing every adjustment I know how to make. Advice or alternative suggestions would be much appreciated.
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lws
.30 Stingray
Spokane Valley, Washington
Posts: 229 
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Post by lws on Nov 29, 2017 18:08:45 GMT -5
Are you using the spacer ring for .357 while trying to load the .38s ?
I have seen guys do this before.
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Post by Burnston on Nov 29, 2017 18:42:08 GMT -5
Are you using the spacer ring for .357 while trying to load the .38s ? I have seen guys do this before. No, I removed the spacer ring. |
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lws
.30 Stingray
Spokane Valley, Washington
Posts: 229
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Post by lws on Nov 29, 2017 20:34:41 GMT -5
Are you using the spacer ring for .357 while trying to load the .38s ? I have seen guys do this before. No, I removed the spacer ring. . Put a empty case in your shell holder. Run it up into the crimp die. Back up the lock ring on the crimp die and screw the crimp die down until it makes contact with the empty case. Run your empty case down and screw the crimp die in another 1/8 to 1/4 turn depending how much crimp you want. Remember to back out and reset the bullet seating stem and lock ring. |
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Post by Chuck Perry on Nov 30, 2017 20:48:21 GMT -5
That's a pretty healthy charge of 2400. Most I've seen recommended is around 12-12.5 grains, think that was in a Handloader article by Venturino a few years ago.
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Post by taffin on Nov 30, 2017 22:35:03 GMT -5
Good afternoon all, My reloading experience is limited to about a year and a half, so it is very possible this is a simple fix that I'm missing. I've been attempting a load from Skelton's book composed of a 158gr EK style bullet with 13.8gr of 2400 in a .38 casing. My RCBS Dies say .38/.357 but I've been unable to crimp a .38 casing after pursuing every adjustment I know how to make. Advice or alternative suggestions would be much appreciated. 13.8 IS TOO HEAVY WITH A 158 UNLESS IT IS THE SKEETER FAVORITE #358156 WITH TWO CRIMP GROOVES WITH THE BOTTOM ONE USED FOR .38 SPECIALS. IF YOU ARE NOT USING THIS BULLET DROP DOWN TO 12.0-12.5 GRAINS. |
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Post by taffin on Nov 30, 2017 22:36:42 GMT -5
Good afternoon all, My reloading experience is limited to about a year and a half, so it is very possible this is a simple fix that I'm missing. I've been attempting a load from Skelton's book composed of a 158gr EK style bullet with 13.8gr of 2400 in a .38 casing. My RCBS Dies say .38/.357 but I've been unable to crimp a .38 casing after pursuing every adjustment I know how to make. Advice or alternative suggestions would be much appreciated. 13.8 IS TOO HEAVY WITH A 158 UNLESS IT IS THE SKEETER FAVORITE #358156 WITH TWO CRIMP GROOVES WITH THE BOTTOM ONE USED FOR .38 SPECIALS. IF YOU ARE NOT USING THIS BULLET DROP DOWN TO 12.0-12.5 GRAINS. PS SKEETER'S LOAD WAS 13.5 GRAINS |
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Post by sixshot on Nov 30, 2017 23:15:51 GMT -5
Lots of times people refer to a SWC as a "Keith" style bullet & that's covering a lot of ground. What gun are you planning to shoot those little rockets in?
Dick
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Post by Burnston on Dec 1, 2017 9:53:44 GMT -5
Lots of times people refer to a SWC as a "Keith" style bullet & that's covering a lot of ground. What gun are you planning to shoot those little rockets in? Dick Thanks for all the responses. I suppose it's hard to stick to the pros if you misread what the pros are writing. I'm shooting out of an OM Blackhawk, 6.5in barrel. Now that my mistake on the load has been pointed out, I'll give it another try. To your point, Mr. Thompson, the bullet is advertised as "Keith Style" but it is not #358156 mentioned by Mr. Taffin. I suppose it's called "Keith Style" to make rookies like me think we're getting something. Am I to understand that the above mentioned load is too hot because I'm attempting to use a .38 casing, or is it too hot for .357 as well? Thanks again. |
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Post by Burnston on Dec 1, 2017 10:10:13 GMT -5
I'm just now realizing something after re-reading this thread. The load mentioned above is for a .357, not a .38 handgun. I'm simply experimenting with .38 cases in a .357 Blackhawk because I read it in a book. I say again, THIS IS NOT INTENDED AS A .38 SPECIAL LOAD!! Sorry for the confusion.
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Post by boolitdesigner on Dec 1, 2017 12:01:43 GMT -5
I'm just now realizing something after re-reading this thread. The load mentioned above is for a .357, not a .38 handgun. I'm simply experimenting with .38 cases in a .357 Blackhawk because I read it in a book. I say again, THIS IS NOT INTENDED AS A .38 SPECIAL LOAD!! Sorry for the confusion. The original loads were used in the 38-44 Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman..... A S&W N frame 38 Special. Those or a 357 Magnum handgun are suitable for the +P / mid 357 Mag pressure range. |
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Post by sixshot on Dec 1, 2017 12:02:09 GMT -5
The reason I ask is because that load would most likely be dangerous in almost any 38 special revolver, especially with 13.8 grs of 2400. Also each bullet has a different nose to crimp length so some will have more bullet in the case than others which can raise pressures very quickly. Mr. Taffin mentions the Ray Thompson #358156 bullet with the dual crimp groove which can be seated deep or shallow allowing the shooter to increase or decrease pressures just by switching crimp grooves. Hope this helps.
We've all been there so don't be afraid to ask, it's better than getting in trouble or destroying a fine sixgun. Everyone here will do there best to help out without trying to make things uncomfortable.
Dick
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Post by Chuck Perry on Dec 2, 2017 7:55:01 GMT -5
Lots of times people refer to a SWC as a "Keith" style bullet & that's covering a lot of ground. What gun are you planning to shoot those little rockets in? Dick Am I to understand that the above mentioned load is too hot because I'm attempting to use a .38 casing, or is it too hot for .357 as well? Thanks again. 13.8g of 2400 is suitable for the 158g LSWC in 357 Magnum cases. I dug up that Handloader article I mentioned earlier (Handloader #249). It was a Venturino piece about duplicating the 38-44. Using several cast LSW bullets in the 155-164g range, he recommended 11-12g of 2400 in 38 Special cases. With the 6.5" bbl of your Blackhawk, you should see top end velocities of 1200FPS, give or take 50FPS. I've loaded and fired these same loads in my 686 and Coonan-they are thumpers! Venturino's article discusses how loading manual recommended charges of 2400 in 38 Special cases have changed over the years. Some 60's era loading manuals showed charges in excess of 13 grains. He loaded a few to try, firing them in a S&W Heavy Duty. From his article, re: firing 158g 38 Specials loaded with 13g of 2400: "At the first shot the Heavy Duty's cylinder fell open. A bit puzzled, I closed it and tried another shot. Again the cylinder fell open. At that point I got smart and stopped. For those who care, those two shots clocked 1,318FPS, and case extraction was hard. Under no such circumstances would I recommend anyone fire such a load in any 38 Special or 357 Magnum revolver." |
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dhd
.327 Meteor
Posts: 941
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Post by dhd on Dec 2, 2017 8:19:18 GMT -5
I suspect you have a reason for trying to load a particular load into 38 Special cases and shoot it out of a 357 Magnum? I can imagine a few, but just curious as to why. Possibly due to having one of the old 38-44 S&W revolvers?
I take a lot of caution to segregate loads/cases between my FA 83's and Ruger's. I do a fair amount of experimenting with different loads just to chase the perfect load, so I understand needing to try different stuff.
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Post by Burnston on Dec 2, 2017 9:06:56 GMT -5
I suspect you have a reason for trying to load a particular load into 38 Special cases and shoot it out of a 357 Magnum? I can imagine a few, but just curious as to why. Possibly due to having one of the old 38-44 S&W revolvers? I take a lot of caution to segregate loads/cases between my FA 83's and Ruger's. I do a fair amount of experimenting with different loads just to chase the perfect load, so I understand needing to try different stuff. My motives are similar to yours. Though I've been handgunning my whole life, I've only recently begun to take it seriously, and even more recently begun handloading, so my issues are very likely rookie mistakes. I recently aquired an OM Ruger BH with a 6.5in barrel in .357 and I've yet to find a load it likes. Wanting a reasonably potent load for woods walking, I worked up to 15gr of 2400 under a 158gr SWC from Missouri Bullet company. Even with my rear sight completely de-elevated, I am shooting six inches high, and extremely erratic all over the upper half of the target at a mere 25 yards. It was for this reason that I dug out an old Skeeter article and read of his experimenting with 13.8 (turns out it was 13.5: Thanks Mr. Taffin) grains of 2400 with a 158gr EK in .38 special cases. I am limited on .357 cases, and have an overabundance of .38 special, so I am open to the attempt. I've not tried any of these yet as I've been unable to get my dies to crimp the .38 special cases, but therein lies my motivation. It also seems, according to some of these appreciated comments, that such an experiment is ill conceived.  |
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