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Post by jfs on Sept 20, 2017 10:17:00 GMT -5
so did you guys run into this??? many years ago, when I had the chance to shoot buffalo for 3 years straight, we had a really tough time getting the herd to leave the downed animal... sometimes it took what seemed like an hour before we could chase the herd away... they surrounded the downed animal, & kept butting it trying to get it to stand up, often delaying a prompt finishing shot... I've heard that it's common with elephants, not sure if you saw much of it in TX or not... maybe "Blondie" was the sole "guard" This "shoot" was several years ago... wish that herd had remained here... I was really starting to enjoy my buffalo shoots I experienced something similar after taking my old bison.....the picture shows just as his back legs start to go......he was an old boy for sure....
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Post by tradmark on Sept 20, 2017 12:41:06 GMT -5
I have only experienced that with bison. Ive had more aggressive bovines turn and want to come for the shooter but not really rally around the dead though im sure it happens.
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Post by bradshaw on Sept 21, 2017 10:36:50 GMT -5
Max... thank you for posting this informative hunt. Good photos good shooting, with evidence the crew came prepared. Look forward to further ballistic breakdown. Without doubt, this work bends the argument away from non-objective bullet selection when taking to the trail with a handgun. David Bradshaw
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Post by txwildcatter on Sept 21, 2017 12:24:24 GMT -5
Great shooting and the tests are very informative! South Texas is a bit warm in the summer. 😎
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Post by whitworth on Sept 22, 2017 9:35:52 GMT -5
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awp101
.401 Bobcat
TANSTAAFL
Posts: 2,632
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Post by awp101 on Sept 22, 2017 10:34:47 GMT -5
I found out that the only way to deform a Punch bullet was to have a collision with a Barnes Buster. Was someone channeling their inner Robin Hood?
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Post by CraigC on Sept 22, 2017 11:03:32 GMT -5
Sure, it was totally intentional.
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Post by tradmark on Sept 22, 2017 13:44:12 GMT -5
Sure, it was totally intentional. Id love it if thats what happened. In the first photo thats 4 different bullets into a large waterbuff shoulder bone. The first is a 500gr 500L bullet that hit bone deformed and took a right and penetrated to just inside the hide on the offside ribcage before it made it to the shoulder. Then u have a 330gr 480 ruger and 300gr 454 lehigh solids at modest velocity that went thru both shoulder bones and found in offisde hide and a barnes buster that passed thru and found in a dirt berm. All with straight line penetration. The pic with lotsa bullets show what a watusi shoulder and skull will do to montana bullet works 315gr at about 1300fps. All deformed. Thats what bone did to them. Conversely my cousin got better penetration with 357 mag 180 gr aframes from his 357 at 1100 fps. The stubby hardcast started life as a 340gr btb hardcast pushed hard at 1800 fps from my 454. The spectacular mess of ground up lead pieces is from a 500 gr linebaugh hardcast into a big waterbuff shoulder bone. The recovered punch bullets were from a 44 mag thiugh a few exited. A few barnes busters exited. Theres a swift aframe from a 454 and from a 460 thru bone that looks perfect along with a 460 barnes. The 44 matts bullet hardcast did well. The 500jrh punch and ceb solids from the 460 and 454 were not recovered and exited everytime.
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Post by tradmark on Sept 22, 2017 13:46:16 GMT -5
Oh, the grenaded 500 solid was found in peices on the onside and did not get hit by anything else. Same box as the one that deformed and veered off course.
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Post by woodgrouse on Jan 28, 2021 11:45:55 GMT -5
Hi!
I have read the Bovine Bash threads and it’s clear to me that flat-nosed solids penetrate deeper than hard cast lead bullets.
I have a FA M83 .454 Casull revolver and I’m planning to buy Lehigh Wide Flat Nose 300gr bullets for it.
Does the flat-nosed solid bullets make bigger wound channel than their hard cast lead counterparts?
Does the solids do everything better than their hard cast lead counterparts?
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Post by 45MAN on Jan 28, 2021 19:35:14 GMT -5
Hi! I have read the Bovine Bash threads and it’s clear to me that flat-nosed solids penetrate deeper than hard cast lead bullets. I have a FA M83 .454 Casull revolver and I’m planning to buy Lehigh Wide Flat Nose 300gr bullets for it. Does the flat-nosed solid bullets make bigger wound channel than their hard cast lead counterparts? I SUGGEST YOU READ THE COMMENTS BY THE OWNER OF BUFFALO FORE AMMO ON ITS WEBSITE RE THE MONOLITHIC SOLIDS -45MAN Does the solids do everything better than their hard cast lead counterparts? THE MONOLITHIC SOLIDS STAY TOGETHER AND RARELY DEFORM, THEIR BULLET INTEGRITY IS INFINITELY BETTER THAN ANY CAST BULLET - 45MAN
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jan 29, 2021 10:20:17 GMT -5
Gotta agree with 45 man, Tim Sundles has some good info on his site.
Do they do EVERYTHING better, no. They penetrate better and handle highvelocity better,
Trapr
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jwp475
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,083
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Post by jwp475 on Jan 30, 2021 15:09:45 GMT -5
Hi! I have read the Bovine Bash threads and it’s clear to me that flat-nosed solids penetrate deeper than hard cast lead bullets. I have a FA M83 .454 Casull revolver and I’m planning to buy Lehigh Wide Flat Nose 300gr bullets for it. Does the flat-nosed solid bullets make bigger wound channel than their hard cast lead counterparts? I SUGGEST YOU READ THE COMMENTS BY THE OWNER OF BUFFALO FORE AMMO ON ITS WEBSITE RE THE MONOLITHIC SOLIDS -45MAN Does the solids do everything better than their hard cast lead counterparts? THE MONOLITHIC SOLIDS STAY TOGETHER AND RARELY DEFORM, THEIR BULLET INTEGRITY IS INFINITELY BETTER THAN ANY CAST BULLET - 45MAN We know that monometsls penetrate deeper and handle more velocity than any lead core bullet. But how much more penetration is needed? I have shot Bison that scored 70 1/4" SCI with hardcast in one side and out the other side, as well as Aslan Buffalo. Which begs the question is more penetration needed. If we were going after large bull elephant then I would use a monometal flat point, anything in North America and I am fine with a proper hardcast of 22 to 25 brinnel At a Linebaugh seminar a Punch Bullet put peneyrated the hardcadt bullets by a grand total of 4" The wound channel is predicated on nose shape and meplat diameter. A proper hardcast with and larger meplat than a monometal will leave a larger wound channel. Also if the hardcast deforms that can also increase damage. LBT WFN hardcasts are .090" below bullet diameter which is 81% of bullet diameter in a 475 Linebaugh the Punch Bullet and the CEB are about 65% meplat
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Post by CraigC on Mar 6, 2021 11:05:07 GMT -5
The monolithics are awesome. They are better in every way, except cost. The question is, do you really need them? Having used them to great effect, I would say the only thing I consider them necessary for would be Cape buffalo, hippo or elephant. They're cheap insurance against bullet failure when your life and an expensive hunt is on the line. For everything else, cast bullets are perfectly fine. Which is why I never jumped ship on cast bullets. Just added a tool to the toolbox.
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Post by flyingzebra on Mar 7, 2021 1:08:58 GMT -5
We know that monometsls penetrate deeper and handle more velocity than any lead core bullet. But how much more penetration is needed? We end up discussing these hard cupric alloy bullets often at the shop, where there are a couple of good cape buffalo heads looking down on us as we ponder. I like the wide flat nose hard cast bullets. Evidence says that at the right velocity they can really hurt the feelings of big animals. Jack reminds me that the ribcage of the cape buffalo can be hard on the front end of even the toughest hard cast bullet. The cupric alloy solids keep their shape better, and have a better chance of straight penetration through that particular orthopedic obstacle course. That's one application where the punch bullet would/could do better than the hard cast lead bullet. That's an application where a slight advantage is a good thing.
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