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Post by eagle1899 on Mar 6, 2017 7:58:06 GMT -5
I also will be shooting F-Class this year (600 mid course) in F-T/R.
I shoot a lot of different disciplines. "Tactical" rifles and Benchrest among them...IMHO Bench rest will only take your skill set so far. As Mr. Bradshaw has demonstrated with his pistol and rifle shooting of aerial targets, being flexible and adaptable are highly important to an overall skill set. A lot of guys start out on square ranges then become bored with the monotony of it, I did. Shooting Precision Rifle Series(PRS) style teaches a new set of skills. Improvised positions, changing wind, incline and decline, follow up shots and rapid fire, spotting, catching bullet trace, recoil management, barrier positions ..... all play into a larger bag of skills to pull from. I do believe PRS style rifles have evolved from this. Being a combination of benchrest accuracy and tactical adaptability.
As an example of a benchrest shooter moving on Tom Sarver set the 1000 yard benchrest record about 10 years ago.... He runs Thunder Valley Precision. They shoot from zero to mile mostly tactical/PRS style rifles.
Carlos was a man among men.
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Post by webber on Mar 6, 2017 8:07:29 GMT -5
Jerry Michelek hit that steel plate offhand with an S&W 9MM revolver at 1000 yards. So??? Things can be done. As we all know.
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Post by eagle1899 on Mar 6, 2017 9:02:53 GMT -5
Jerry is not human!!!!
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Post by bagdadjoe on Mar 8, 2017 8:52:36 GMT -5
A shipmate of mine was hitting 55gallon drums at 5 miles.
With the big five inch.... ;-)
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Post by sixshot on Mar 8, 2017 15:34:40 GMT -5
Long range accuracy is only long range accuracy if you can call your shots. That doesn't mean you won't miss from time to time, even the best snipers miss but they don't miss much. That spotter sitting beside them doing the calculations is just as important as the shooter & they do some amazing things together. Some of you may remember a few years back when I hosted a Marine Corp. sniper who later became an instructor in the Corp. It was amazing talking with him & learning but he was very humble but he also opened up about some of the shots they made, I really enjoyed listening to him. When he would go check his target he would run down with his M4 on his back & then run back, go prone & shoot, then run back to the target & check & run back & go prone. Of course he could have used my spotting scope but that wasn't going to happen. Long range can be a hobby, a job or what ever you make it. One of my son's has built 2 different 375 Chey-Tac's & with those big Night Force scopes on top & one of his brothers spotting & calculating he can do some amazing shooting with the 32 lb. one, the 13 lb. one is pretty close.
Dick
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Post by webber on Mar 8, 2017 16:04:50 GMT -5
While military snipers are,good. Very good, indeed. Many long,and I mean looooong range hits have varying degrees of luck involved. An error of 2 mph in wind speed can make a big difference in where the bullet hits. One cannot feel a 2 mph wind error on his cheek. If one can they are a very sensitive skinned person. Just one error in judgement, hold technique, trigger operation, head position can mean a miss. Lady Luck where oh where are you? Please do not leave me now.
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Post by eagle1899 on Mar 8, 2017 19:05:21 GMT -5
I take it most here don't shoot long distance?
Wind is certainly a factor but to say hits at distance are mere luck is foolish.
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Post by webber on Mar 9, 2017 8:10:05 GMT -5
I may be mistaken but I didn't see where anyone said hit at long distance was mere luck. Myself I said they involved varying degrees of luck. I stand behind what I said. Until someone can do the deed on a consistance basis it involves luck to varying degrees.
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Post by zeus on Mar 9, 2017 8:17:43 GMT -5
I may be mistaken but I didn't see where anyone said hit at long distance was mere luck. Myself I said they involved varying degrees of luck. I stand behind what I said. Until someone can do the deed on a consistance basis it involves luck to varying degrees. Luck does has its place on any given day to a degree but just like anything else, trigger time and familiarity with your equipment makes a big difference. As well as just what that equipment is. When you step out to the mile plus area, exactly what your equipment is starts to really show. You need one that stacks them on top of each other and can be counted on to remain consistent. You can gauge changes in atmospheric conditions better to an extent because you can see some of it than you can flyers from a gun that's not built to exacting standards. Define long distance........ I think that is a term that is thrown about but everyone has a different idea of what it means. To some, 100-200 is a LONG way, to others, shooting 1800-2000 yards is nothing and it can be done with very good consistency with the right equipment and loads. I have some rifles that are scary accurate at a mile. I have one that was built to go well past that. But, consistency isn't a problem under ideal conditions. It's the wind changes at a mile plus that get you. Updrafts, downdrafts etc. sometimes they change, sometimes they don't but I can tell you, I know a handful of men I shoot with that I definitely WOULD NOT want to be sitting at 2000 yards and them be aiming my way...I feel their consistency is good enough, it is not a chance I'd like to take
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Post by eagle1899 on Mar 9, 2017 9:27:48 GMT -5
If I'm shooting at "long distance" my equipment includes a watch that reads temp, pressure and altitude, wind meter and a laser range finder. I run everything through a ballistic calculator and use previous dope. Like everything else, practice, practice, practice....
Reading wind, mirage and staying on top of atmospheric conditions is difficult and just as important as pulling the trigger.
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Post by eagle1899 on Mar 9, 2017 9:32:23 GMT -5
Well said Zeus!!!
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Post by webber on Mar 9, 2017 11:17:54 GMT -5
Here is what I said.
"Myself I said they involved varying degrees of luck. I stand behind what I said. Until someone can do the deed on a consistance basis it involves luck to varying degrees."
Zeus said.
"Luck does has its place on any given day to a degree but just like anything else, trigger time and familiarity with your equipment makes a big difference." "But, consistency isn't a problem under ideal conditions. It's the wind changes at a mile plus that get you. Updrafts, downdrafts etc. sometimes they change, sometimes they don't but I can tell you, I know a handful of men I shoot with that I definitely WOULD NOT want to be sitting at 2000 yards and them be aiming my way...I feel their consistency is good enough, it is not a chance I'd like to take "
Define "ideal conditions".
Define consistency?
Define "chance".
I would not want to sit at 2000 yards and let my wife shoot at me. My "bad luck" would be she would hit me on the first shot. Probably even under non ideal conditions she would.
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Post by bulasteve on Mar 9, 2017 13:13:31 GMT -5
I've gotten to shoot a Barrett 50, I've a friend that was pulled from the "line" in Korea and flown home to shoot at Camp Perry 1000yd matches. That said, being an eastern woodlands hunter, 150 yds look waaaay too far ! I am not that kinda hunter or shooter. If you have the money and the time..and keep flinging'em thataway..luck to ya.
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Post by sixshot on Mar 9, 2017 14:10:26 GMT -5
Again this is an argument that has no winners because everyone has a different set of rules, & the rules are mostly distance. I would have to say for most people in the serious long range shooting business long range would "start" at 1,000 yds & go from there. I can say this, I've done a little long range shooting with my son's but not much but they have 2 375 Chey-Tac's & 2 50 Cal's & I will say right up front, it would take some really bad conditions for them to miss anyone reading this at 1,000 yds. I know a few other locals that could do the same & Zeus knows several. This isn't to create an argument, it's to educate some that aren't aware of what's possible with today's equipment, mostly the improved scopes, but also rangefinders & calculators. Give some of these guys 2 chances & there's almost no chance of a miss under any reasonable conditions. Being a "short" range shooter myself, meaning handguns, mostly revolvers but some single shots I've always limited myself to more reasonable distances although with the single shots I have taken 3 big game animals beyond 400 yds & 1 over 500. Not something I like to do & there was no other way to close the distance & yes I had a spotter each time. Three were deer, one bedded & one was an antelope. So, defining long range can get tricky!
Dick
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