The Reason I Prefer Cast

[500fksjr]

+1 Dick,.. I have only used cast bullets for the last 15 yrs...Cast Pref,MBW,and Bryan Reece.....32,.38,44 spec,45LC,500 Linebaugh...850fps to 1150 fps...Buffalo,Yak,Bear,Hogs,Deer,Elk...Ground hogs squrials,Chipmunks etc,etc...shoulder shots to break them down...and shoot a second if needed...Never chased one...Found a few slugs not many...FWIW

[tek4260]

After reading all this, I wonder what I need to do to get more "bang flop" performance, like it seems everyone else gets? Of course that was the reason for testing the 240gr HP and 7.5" barrel. The only way I can ensure they don't take a step is to let them get directly in line with me, head down feeding, and shoot them in the center of the neck, breaking the spine, or directly under me shooting directly between the shoulders, again breaking the spine. It just doesn't happen for me when I shoot broadside heart/lungs.

[dvnv]

You can hit the spine from the side too...

[mart]

Short of hitting the central nervous system there is no guarantee of a "bang flop" with any bullet, rifle or handgun. I don't have near the big game experience as some guys but between my wife and I we've taken right at 60 animals from antelope and deer to elk and moose. I've watched deer take the exact same hit from the exact same rifle/handgun and bullet combination and had one die on the spot and the other run a considerable distance. There is no explaining it some times other than some animals drop and some don't.

I watched a whitetail doe run over a mile across the stubble with the top of her heart shot off leaking blood like a water hose. Another doe hit low in the chest dropped at the shot. It was really a marginal hit and barely clipped the lower edge of the lungs. On another doe, a friend was in a tree stand with his 300 Weatherby and some 165 grain bullets expecting to shoot across the field at around 250 yards. Instead a doe walked under his stand and took the full force of that 300 at 15 yards in the chest. She barely looked up. She just pranced off like whitetails do and after 50 yards pitched forward on her nose. Other than that she gave no indication of a hit. If any scenario should have been a bang flop, that certainly would qualify.

If making a central nervous system shot is unlikely, try a high shoulder shot or make sure there is a shoulder in the path of the bullet either going in or going out. A good heart/lung shot with a busted shoulder makes it unlikely the deer will go far. High shoulder shots seem to produce more immediately dropped game than just a heart/lung shot.

I guess I wouldn't place a high priority on requiring a bang flop reaction and focus more on making sure my bullet passes through all the vitals and leaves a second hole on the off side.

[Fowler]

Dec 14, 2016 9:41:24 GMT -5 tek4260 said:

After reading all this, I wonder what I need to do to get more "bang flop" performance, like it seems everyone else gets? Of course that was the reason for testing the 240gr HP and 7.5" barrel. The only way I can ensure they don't take a step is to let them get directly in line with me, head down feeding, and shoot them in the center of the neck, breaking the spine, or directly under me shooting directly between the shoulders, again breaking the spine. It just doesn't happen for me when I shoot broadside heart/lungs.

You know I just dont think that shooting anything broadside, through the lungs, without breaking down a shoulder or spine, will result in bang-flops very reliably. Now I have killed more elk than deer but lung shots from even 338 rifles seldom even get much of a reaction from an elk, often little more than a muscle twitch like they are shooing a fly away, then they run off and go all jelly legged. The concussion of the shot spooks them more than the bullet strike it would seem.

The last mule deer I killed with a handgun went over backwards as if he had had his back broken, skinning him out it turned out the bullet nicked the top of both lungs and passed at least 4" under the spine. Why he fell over as if smashed by the hammer of Thor I have no idea, but the 250gr Keith at 1050fps put that deer down harder than any rifle ever has in my hands when shot through the ribs. Its nice when it happens but I think it is asking perhaps a bit much to expect it.

[500fksjr]

The "Bang-Flop" thought process is nice but do not labor under it...One shot Kills are nice to see and Brag about!!! donot die because of it though!

[sixshot]

There's no way you can get instant one shot knock down's on demand with any gun, any caliber except on some of the edited TV shows. It's hunting, the shot is never the same, the angle is never the same, the distance, size of the animal, caliber, etc. Just too many variables unless you can make a brain shot on demand. A sixgun can not match a rifle for speed, & riles use jacketed bullets that depend on velocity & expansion to deliver massive shock to put animals down.
A sixgun with cast needs that big, flat nose to make a massive wound channel, even without expansion to work it's magic, that, along with an exit gets you 2 holes & in most cases much blood loss & blood pressure drops rapidly & the animal goes down quite fast but not that dramatic "John Wayne" effect you see in the movies.
Still that big, heavy, flat bullet is superbly effective at doing it's job if placed correctly. A jacketed bullet of the same caliber starts out with a smaller nose but that nose will expand to equal the cast if driven to the correct speed. You can't always depend on that because you can't always pick the exact distance in the field & you can't always pick the exact angle. Still, I know there are many great jacketed bullets because I know many of the finest handgunners we have use them with great success. Guys like Mark Hampton, Ken O'Neill, Lynn Thompson, John Taffin & Larry Kelly & many of you on this forum have used them on some very large & very dangerous animals so they have to work. When using them they work almost exactly like a cast bullet, that is, they penetrate like crazy, there's no other way to get the job done. We are lucky that we have both. Like I said before, if you like them use them. I'm totally happy with cast because they've never failed me. I've taken 11 elk, 1 bull moose, a boat load of deer & African plains game about the same size using cast, for me they work.
Probably the worst hunting scene I ever watched was a Pronghorn Antelope, it had been shot 7 times with a 7 Magnum over about 2 miles before it decided to give up, it was awful! The bullet doesn't guarantee success, placement & penetration guarantees success.

Dick

[bigbrowndog]

I will echo marts comments, Severing the CNS is what will "guarantee" bang/flops, I've done it a few times but rarely on purpose, unless I was intentionally making head shots. I also as mart said, try to take a shoulder either going in or coming out, this definitely seems to help shorten the trailing job.
I posted elsewhere about my antelope that was taken with my 500max, the doe took numerous shots from the first broadside or slightly quartering one to the final broadside one that went thru both shoulders, from 85 yards to finally 25ish yards. I can't recall now if it was 3 hits or 4, but needing more than one never occurred to me.

You just never know,.......I shoot both jacketed and cast depending on the game, the only failures I've ever had or observed firsthand were always with jacketed.

Trapr