pwb
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 14
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Post by pwb on Nov 7, 2015 14:54:40 GMT -5
I recently bought a set of Lee .45 Colt carbide dies and thought I would do some loading for my Ruger Flattop .45. Most of my handgun loading for years has been for .38/357 and .45 ACP. The Ruger is a convertible .45 Colt - .45 ACP model with a 5 inch barrel. For starters I will be loading Hornady 250 grain HP XTP. I'll be using them mostly for range work and will occasionally carry the Ruger while deer hunting.
Powders I have for .45 Colt listed in Hornady’s manual are: HP-38/W-231, Titegroup, Universal, Bullseye and Unique. I also have some HS-6 which is listed in some of my other manuals.
I know there are a lot of powder and bullet combinations for the .45 Colt. I’m not necessarily looking for any specific load recipes unless you want to share those. Of the powders I’ve mentioned; which would you use? And why you prefer a particular powder. Any suggestions regarding any powder I don’t have are also welcome.
I've also wondered about which grain weight is best for .45 Colt. I know 250 grain is the traditional but I what about 230, 240 or 260 grain JHP? The reason I ask is that I have a fair amount of 230 grain JHP's on hand for .45 ACP. Every manual I have list loads for 230 grain but I'm not sure how well they would work in a .45 Colt. I always had the notion that a .45 Colt was best served with a heavy piece of lead.
I plan to try me some lead bullets later on. Probably will have to get a .45 Colt Ruger Vaquero to go with them !! Thank you for your response.
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 7, 2015 19:54:39 GMT -5
pub.... cannot at moment address all your questions. Let's start here:
The .45 Colt and .45 ACP are entirely different cartridges. Load your .45 ACP bullets for the ACP cylinder. To illustrate, 230 grain bullets designed for the auto pistol haven't the HOLD BACK necessary to offset the huge gas expansion volume of the Colt's black powder boiler room. Beaucoup slow powder will not reward you with great velocity. And too much fast powder is a hand grenade. David Bradshaw
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Post by dougader on Nov 7, 2015 20:14:25 GMT -5
What gun are you loading for? Most of the loading manuals I have list 2 separate sections for Colt and Colt clones, and Ruger large frame revolvers.
I load for a ruger Montado now, which is a medium frame Ruger revolver with the "New Vaquero" stamp on the frame. Lower pressure for this gun. You can use the higher pressure data for the large frame Ruger.
I use 231, Red Dot, for shooting paper. Blue Dot, 2400 and AA9 for self defense and hunting loads.
Any of the powders you list can be used depending on what type loads you want. Unique and Universal can be used for a nice mid-range load for target or hunting.
Get 2 or 3 manuals to get an idea of what is possible. I like Speer, Lyman and Hornady but also have Sierra and Nosler. More data online from Hodgdon, Alliant, etc.
Currently I'm using 6.8 grains W231 with a 250-255 grain cast bullet, RNFP or SWC. Burning up the old Hercules Blue Dot with lead 250 grain hp and the Speer 250 grain Gold Dot, also the Beartooth 265 wfngc and their 255 rnfp, running 12 - 13 grains of the Blue Dot.
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Post by nolongcolt on Nov 7, 2015 20:29:25 GMT -5
Never go wrong with Unique. I like W231 very much too, if you can find some, I cant, but HP38, essentially the same powder may be a bit more readily found. I have been playing lately with Green Dot too and it works fine. For hot stuff, 2400 up to H110 are the go to powders, just don't load those hot loads for Colts and equivalent guns. Ruger and stronger only for hot stuff. And not just any Ruger anymore. The New Vaquero and mid frame flat tops are not as strong the full size Blackhawk, Bisleys and original full size Vaqueros. Whatever you have in this caliber will be fun, its the all time greatest handgun cartridge around. It will do about anything a handgun can be asked to do.
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Post by webber on Nov 7, 2015 21:58:19 GMT -5
I like 19 grains of 2400 and a 270 gr SAA bullet with standard primer. Shoots well, doesn't beat me up and I like it.
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mbogo
.30 Stingray
Posts: 150
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Post by mbogo on Nov 7, 2015 22:19:36 GMT -5
The fact that you reference flat top in the first sentence leads me to think one of the new model Lipseys, and to keep pressures under 21,000 PSI, per Ruger's +P okay with the ACP cylinder... So it is the same as the New Vaquero. Stay away from the Ruger Only Loading.
With what you list in available powders, the Unique and Universal have worked well personally, don't recall working with the others.
Your thoughts about the heavier slugs being better all around are well grounded as Mr. Bradshaw touches on.
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Post by Encore64 on Nov 7, 2015 23:23:30 GMT -5
In my much younger day I shot a lot of 45 Colt through my Ruger Blackhawk. Got it in 1983, when I was 18 years old.
9.2 grns of Unique behind a 260 grn SWC. It still works well after all these years. Use a lot of Magnum powders these days, but the old Unique load still sees use.
I settled on 9.2 grns because all I owned was a set of Lee scoops.
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Post by jeffer on Nov 8, 2015 1:29:38 GMT -5
AA9 worked incredibly well in my flattop under the 280 SAA.
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pwb
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 14
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Post by pwb on Nov 8, 2015 2:07:21 GMT -5
The fact that you reference flat top in the first sentence leads me to think one of the new model Lipseys, and to keep pressures under 21,000 PSI, per Ruger's +P okay with the ACP cylinder... So it is the same as the New Vaquero. Stay away from the Ruger Only Loading. With what you list in available powders, the Unique and Universal have worked well personally, don't recall working with the others. Your thoughts about the heavier slugs being better all around are well grounded as Mr. Bradshaw touches on. You are correct; my Ruger is one of the Lipsey's Flatops...nice shooting pistol but I have no desire to load hot rounds with it. .45 Colt load will be on the mild side. It shoots well with the .45 ACP but I would like to see how it fares with the .45 Colt cylinder. Anything any hotter will have to wait on the day when I can get my hands on a Ruger Redhawk .45 Colt.
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 8, 2015 7:08:57 GMT -5
pwb.... Win 231/HP-38 effectively spans the 38 Special, 45 ACP, and 45 Colt with accurate, below-top volume loads. This shooter was able to clank TIN MAN with a 4-3/4" 1897 Peacemaker from 190 yards. The .45 Colt load consisted of a 255 SWC bevel base over 6.7 grains/HP-38. The bullet was SEATED deep to crimp about .030" above the front band. Holding about two feet right windage and perhaps 3/16" front sight, and shooting offhand, 5x6 slugs clunked the quarter inch steel. Blind luck to be sure, and aided by a spotter.
I have deep SEATED light loads half a century. I did not invent the idea, just re-invented it for myself. It began with necessity, seating swaged bullets sans crimp groove. The practice worked astoundingly well. Historically, deep seating may date to the dawn of the self-contained cartridge. David Bradshaw
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Post by webber on Nov 8, 2015 7:53:33 GMT -5
if this gun the OP stated he has is weaker than the New Vaquero then maybe he should not pay attention to the 2400 guy. I like the load I mentioned in my gun and actually like it better than the cream puff loads. A cream puff load that is good is 6 gr Bullseye with the 270 SAA bullet. By cream puff I mean in the recoil department. The 2400 load isn't heavy in recoil either for a load that is not a light target load.
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Post by bradshaw on Nov 8, 2015 7:53:40 GMT -5
Spotty component availability forces u s to "use what we got to get what we want." Thus, the question of which powders work for a specific application is more valid than ever. If we leave pressure excursions out for a moment, and look at ACCURACY, we see that some powders makes friends with all sorts of bullets, while another powder may one or two friends. Yet another reason why the target is the final arbiter of a load.
In the old days, my old days, primary pistol powders were few and included Hercules Bullseye, Unique, and 2400. And IMR 4227. With inroads of a surplus ball powder variously called 295, 296, H110. There were others powders from DuPont, but these were King. Versatile across a spectrum of cartridges.
I believe that due to boiler room (expansion ratio) characteristics, the .45 Colt presents, accuracy-wise, more challenges with jacketed bullets than its case-length children the .357 and .44 Magnum. Now add the work ready to be done with a powder coated bullet at modest velocity and pressure.
I would save those .45 ACP bullets for loading .45 ACP, which is a wonderful single action revolver cartridge. David Bradshaw
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Post by dale53 on Nov 8, 2015 11:36:03 GMT -5
pwb; I have Brian Pearce's article from the Handloader Magazine on YOUR revolver with loads for both .45 ACP and .45 Colt in two levels: Standard pressure loads and heavier loads (but suitable for YOUR flattop convertible)in both jacketed and cast bullets.
My personal preference in bullets is cast only. I see little or no benefit in jacketed at the velocities you will achieve with your revolver (I already have a SS Bisley .45 ACP/.45 Colt Convertible (on the large frame) or you can bet I would have one of the flattops (I already have two flattop .44 Specials,too).
At any rate, you will be well served by good cast bullets. I cast my own and heartily recommend that EVERYONE cast their own. However, if you are not yet into casting your own, then there are suppliers listed in the Brian Pearce article for you to get some.
My favorite bullet in the .45 Colt is the RCBS .45-270-SAA (I have a six cavity Mihec mold for this bullet). It casts at 285 grs. in my alloy. My nexyt favorite is the 250 gr. Keith (Lyman 454424). I have a five cavity mold from NOE for this excellent bullet. Either will give you want you want for range use as well as a decent deer load. Brian lists a number of loads for powders that you have listed.
Write me direct at rmcgee733 at gmail dot com and I will send you a copy by email attachment.
FWIW Dale53
P.S. I have had excellent results with my .45 ACP cylinder using the Mihec copy of the H&G #68 cast bullet (200 gr. SWC). These will shoot under 1" at 25 yards from my large frame convertible using 4.0 gr. of Titegroup and taper crimping the bullet. rdm
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Sarge
.30 Stingray
Posts: 348
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Post by Sarge on Nov 8, 2015 12:21:17 GMT -5
For factory level loads I've burned a lot of 231/HP38 and it is a dandy powder for that purpose. Since it became scarce I have switched to Universal and don't believe I lost a thing in the process. I'd used it in other cartridges but it really comes into its own in the 45 Colt. It's a splendid powder for 850-1000 fps loads.
I've also used HS6 for 1050-1100 fps with complete satisfaction and fine accuracy. W296 has been my heavy load powder for decades and it's been great in the 45 Colt as well.
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
Posts: 912
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Post by shorty500 on Nov 8, 2015 15:23:53 GMT -5
All the powders you currently have on hand will work just fine in the .45colt given proper load selection for the bullet and intended purpose at hand
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