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Post by Encore64 on Aug 12, 2015 21:29:15 GMT -5
What a great post Nolongcolt. You are correct in your assessment.
It's so peculiar to me. I hear nothing but praise and worship for Colt revolvers. Yet they are notorious for oversized throats. Even though they cost 2-3 times what a Ruger cost, it's perfectly acceptable.
Ruger varies half Colts tolerances, for 1/3 the cost and all Hell breaks loose.
I suppose I'm just not smart enough to understand the logic. Perhaps I should buy a new caliper or something.
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Post by zeus on Aug 12, 2015 21:45:23 GMT -5
I have to be honest. I don't worry too much about it either way as long as they shoot! If they won't shoot, I'll investigate but most rugers I've owned would outshoot the numbskull pulling on the bangswitch. I don't own pin gauges either, and for good reason. The engineer in me would go crazy worrying about something before I let it prove itself. I'm the same way with a smoker. I run 5 temp probes and if you aren't careful, you can have too much information and go insane From all accounts so far, the guns will shoot. I'll let you know soon what my thoughts are when I have a chance to ring one out for myself but Im not worried at all. And I still say that it's a great deal. A custom cylinder cost what this entire gun does with most builders. And if you've ever built full custom. You know that is just a DROP in the bucket for total build cost.
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Post by Colt45r on Aug 12, 2015 21:55:29 GMT -5
I guess it's just important for the makers of the guns that I have of John, Dustin, and Alan. They always seem to shoot good with the throats right. No big deal guys. I hope the best for everyone here, just seen too much of the opposite from ruger. I have had a couple that shot good. Sure do like the looks of those Bisley 's though. Guess that's why I have paid to have the work done on them.
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Post by zeus on Aug 12, 2015 22:27:51 GMT -5
Never said it wasn't important, just that I don't personally worry about it unless the gun shoots poorly. I have guns from all of the guys you mention as well and I have paid a metric ton of money over the years for parts that were "right". As most of the guys on this forum have as well. But that doesn't change the fact that if a sixgun or rifle shoots well as is that it doesn't need to be monkeyed with in my opinion. I see no reason in throwing money at something that shoots well. If it doesn't shoot, well that's a different story. It has to be fixed or find another home. Simple as that.
For instance, I have a contender barrel that will defy anything you think you know about what a barrel needs to be to be accurate. It literally is missing rifling an inch from the muzzle on one side and a chipped chamber and will shoot one hole groups all day long at 100 yards. I have used it out to 350 yards on mule deer. It will never be sold. I've had the chance to replace it numerous times but haven't as I'm afraid a "good" barrel may not shoot as well. Hahaha
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Post by brandoninaz on Aug 13, 2015 0:13:13 GMT -5
Never said it wasn't important, just that I don't personally worry about it unless the gun shoots poorly. I have guns from all of the guys you mention as well and I have paid a metric ton of money over the years for parts that were "right". As most of the guys on this forum have as well. But that doesn't change the fact that if a sixgun or rifle shoots well as is that it doesn't need to be monkeyed with in my opinion. I see no reason in throwing money at something that shoots well. If it doesn't shoot, well that's a different story. It has to be fixed or find another home. Simple as that. For instance, I have a contender barrel that will defy anything you think you know about what a barrel needs to be to be accurate. It literally is missing rifling an inch from the muzzle on one side and a chipped chamber and will shoot one hole groups all day long at 100 yards. I have used it out to 350 yards on mule deer. It will never be sold. I've had the chance to replace it numerous times but haven't as I'm afraid a "good" barrel may not shoot as well. Hahaha Touché...
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COR
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,527
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Post by COR on Aug 13, 2015 5:53:27 GMT -5
I guess it's just important for the makers of the guns that I have of John, Dustin, and Alan. They always seem to shoot good with the throats right. No big deal guys. I hope the best for everyone here, just seen too much of the opposite from ruger. I have had a couple that shot good. Sure do like the looks of those Bisley 's though. Guess that's why I have paid to have the work done on them. The comparisons to those builders is like comparing a stock Ford Mustang to a Saleen. I'm just always amazed at people's crtiscism of a car the never drove because it was missing some air in the front tire. You can talk all you want about the custom builders, we've had that option for years. This is a very affordable gun that will shoot as well as any custom with some load development. These aren't bench guns made to shoot moa, these are tools to be carried in the field. Are you reall going to tell me the difference in a 1" gun and a 2" gun are even measureable. Once again I'll remind you to forget all the internet bloviation and go have some fun. This is not an erector set. Ps....thanks for returning those 5 hole Rugers. They will make 5 other shooters happy! So ya done good there, the rest, well....
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Post by Colt45r on Aug 13, 2015 7:01:25 GMT -5
COR,
Not trying to get you all pissed off, because I am not jumping on the band wagon with everyone else. I have bought and shot just as many rugers as most of you guys. I just go off of the continued experience that I have had with each Ruger that I buy. This is just based on my experience. I didn't mean to kick anyone's dog or anything. Please have a great time shooting those guns. It is okay to get on this forum and give an opinion, isn't it? Does your opinion always have to be just like everyone else? I just expect more from people. Sorry for upsetting you, guy.
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Aug 13, 2015 7:37:55 GMT -5
I don't get to caught up in measuring either. But, I get curious as to why one gun shoots so well and another doesn't. So I do some slugging and cero safe pouring. I did get a set of pin gauges and found most had some thread choke. Machinist buddy of mine measured a bunch of cylinders for me with a ball mic. I use these as a reference point. I shoot cast 99% of the time. My alloy is some what softer than what most folks use and I have gotten acceptable to excellent accuracy. Most of these are of a plain base design. The softer alloy I believe may actually slug up even after going through some minor thread choke. Where as some of these super hard alloys skid upon entering the barrel, get sized down and never get a hold of the rifling after that. Have a bunch of Lino type and never had near the luck with it as I did a softer alloy. It sure cast easy and looks perfect.
I see a lot of folks saying they measured this and that. I wonder how the majority of them measure and if they are really doing it in a proper way. Jeff
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Post by Encore64 on Aug 13, 2015 7:55:12 GMT -5
I have to confess that I measure everything. But, I don't expect the same from an $800 that I expect from a custom.
My Reeder 454 Casull chambers are .003" tighter than even my FA-83. The gun is even headspaced for Starline brass.
It is without a doubt the finest revolver I own. No engraving, just a classy rig. Everything has to be perfect, but the results are worth the effort.
All in all, I am glad to see these guns. Hope they work out for most people.
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Post by Colt45r on Aug 13, 2015 9:03:31 GMT -5
That is some good points. Those are some of the things that I also look for. I do custom work on 1911's and really like precision quality, seeing the difference that this makes in the longevity of the guns and the accuracy gain. Like you guys on this forum, I also understand that we are not going to get custom or semi custom gun quality from a production revolver. I just get frustrated with not only Ruger, but Colt and several other companies that have continued to ramp up the production putting quantity over quality. I feel like it is our duty as Americans to expect more from our products and the companies that we have here. American quality has been poor for sometime, and didn't used to be. I know that the steel is better and we have better tooling for the jobs, but that even means we should expect more. We know what it takes to make a dollar and sometimes seem to be fine with the fact that everyone else can do half butt work and charge you for it. Sure you have a choice whether or not to buy, but the options in the production world for most that can only afford this level of cost should demand more for their dollar. This is also one of the only forums that I spend time on, mainly reading what you all post and looking at the nice guns that are posted. I don't spend a lot of time on other forums due to the amount of people that worship a company and like the groupy thing, thinking that they can do know wrong. They spend more time under the desk of these manufacturers. I know you guys have seen this. Customers need to demand more, so that the market can improve. There are a lot of people out there that would love to have a full custom, but cannot afford this. I've been there. I have also had a ruger, that was built wrong, (tighter than usual), and was a super shooter and I too Love that gun. My usual way of doing things lately has been to go through several to find one closer to this level, and have seen greater results in the groups obtained. Most of the Rugers that I have had prior to doing this have proven to give way less than stellar accuracy.
More than anything, I just felt the need to be honest about what I have seen with the throat diameter, that I have seen from three guns, due to the title of this thread, so that good people like you all are in the know. That's what I like about this forum. There is a great deal of experienced gun guys and shooters on this forum who help other gun guys with these threads. That makes this forum valuable. I have enjoyed it.
Thanks guys.
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Post by bulasteve on Aug 13, 2015 10:20:58 GMT -5
The cylinder throat measurements are only meaningful in comparison of the bore measurements. By them selves not of much value in judging a firearm. Me, I've never measured, nor have the means. I do wiggle in a bullet or two, and get a rough idea of what the gun may prefer. No ransom rests or chrony here either. Is a freezer full of venison here. If and when you cannot find accurcy, then start measuring.
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Post by bulasteve on Aug 13, 2015 10:25:18 GMT -5
Oh and Colt45R, keep the opinions coming. You glean nuggets of wisdom from where you can find them. I think you have some. Other times you kinda "blend" a bunch of opinions together and distill them down into a workable truth.
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Post by Colt45r on Aug 13, 2015 10:26:21 GMT -5
Just like the 45 Colt in Rugers, the 454 groove diameters are usually .451 We've established this already. Glad you have meat! Thanks.
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COR
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,527
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Post by COR on Aug 13, 2015 11:30:07 GMT -5
COR, Not trying to get you all pissed off, because I am not jumping on the band wagon with everyone else. I have bought and shot just as many rugers as most of you guys. I just go off of the continued experience that I have had with each Ruger that I buy. This is just based on my experience. I didn't mean to kick anyone's dog or anything. Please have a great time shooting those guns. It is okay to get on this forum and give an opinion, isn't it? Does your opinion always have to be just like everyone else? I just expect more from people. Sorry for upsetting you, guy. If you think this is "pissed off" you are taking yourself and this topic WAY too seriously. Your minimization of my responses by insinuating they are personal won't make your statements any more valid. You mention your "experience" and yet you never shot one round from a gun you'll say you're disappointed in. Just my opinion, try not to take it personally.
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Post by Colt45r on Aug 13, 2015 11:43:52 GMT -5
COR,
I hear ya. I'm not taking it personal. Based on my experience in the past is the reason that I did not buy them to shoot is base on the measurements and what I have continued to see. No big deal. To each his own.
Have a good one.
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