mule
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 13 
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Post by mule on Jan 16, 2015 20:28:54 GMT -5
I am looking to shoot a 300 grain bullet at about 1500 fps. I would prefer to cast my own, but some have a gas check. Can I shoot a gas check bullet without a gas check at all velocities or only some?
I have an old style Ruger Vaquero with a fluted cylinder in 45 lc. Does anyone have any information on the pressure ratings for this particular model? Thank you
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 16, 2015 20:46:43 GMT -5
back up ole mule.... 1,500 fps from a 300 grain .45 bullet is a game for 5-shot cylinders only. Reading your words posted a picture in my skull of Bill Ruger sitting across the table, presented with such a high pressure proposal. Why, the Old Man might have pulled his .45 Colt out of the production line. Listen to an old powder monkey: things made by man can be blown up.
Back to your Shakespearean question, your cast gas check bullet----sans gas check----should be o.k. at 800 fps.
David Bradshaw
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Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,566
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Post by Fowler on Jan 16, 2015 22:37:29 GMT -5
Bradshaw is right on the money as usual, 1500fps with a factory Ruger is just asking for the gun to detonate! 1300fps? Yes but anything more than that is really pushing it in a Ruger. You will find some of the loading manuals have a "Ruger only" section of loads that have a pile of loads that in large frame Rugers will push them to the limit.
Now than the real question is just what are you hoping to gain over say a 1200fls load? Penetration? John Linebaugh had proven over and over that anything beyond 1200-1250fps gain little if any penetration, if you want more penetration go to a heavier bullet not more velocity. Do you hope to gain flatter trajectory? In a iron sighted revolver there are damn few people who can use the trifle flatter trajectory, the gains are not realized till you get out 125-150 yards plus, distances that for hunting a iron sighted revolver, probably it shouldn't be asked to do on big game.
What you will gain is heavy muzzle blast, recoil, wear in your hands and heavy wear on your gun for very little gain in the feild.
Now the gas check question is a bit different, most people seem to think at somewhere over 1200fps is the land where gas checks really help keep a gun from leading. But the more important question is how is your gun set up? Is the cylinder/barrel alignment spot on? Is the barrel smooth and free of dreaded thread choke in the rear of the barrel? Are the cylinder throats properly sized? If everything is as it should be then plain based bullets can be pushed as hard as a Ruger frame will allow. If anything is rough, if the barrel leads, if the alignment is at all off then a gas check might help the situation but again it might not fix anything. When I started casting years ago I thought gas check were the answer, now if is a extremely unusual day where I shoot any sort of a gas check.
Just my two cents.
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Paden
.375 Atomic
Lower Goldstream Creek
Posts: 1,132
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Post by Paden on Jan 16, 2015 22:58:39 GMT -5
Mules are one of my favorite animals. I admire their intelligence and strong inclination toward self preservation.... Thus, I gotta give the benefit of doubt and believe "1500 fps" was simply a typo.
When you say "old style Vaquero", do you mean you have an old model large frame Vaquero, manufactured pre-2000? If so, are you absolutely positively sure it's a large frame Vaquero, and not a newer small frame Vaquero?
Do a google search for"brian pearce handloader 246", wherein Pearce describes three categories of Ruger revolvers, and safe pressure levels for each. Your gun will fall into one of those categories, depending on the frame size. It's an excellent place to start.
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mule
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 13
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Post by mule on Jan 18, 2015 17:04:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the information. I do have an old style or pre 2000 vaquero. Y'all have helped a lot.
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Post by kaytod on Jan 18, 2015 17:49:08 GMT -5
Mule,
Lot's of good advice above.
Hodgdon has pressure data for the large frame Rugers on it's webpage,( they hold the pressures to 30K) and John Linebaugh has an article you may fine useful regarding the 45 colt. (Holding the pressures to 32K)
If you had a long nose bullet that would fill the cylinder, it would be possible to attain somewhere close to the 1500 fps mark, however it will cost you about 25% more pressure than the Hodgdon maximum. When you get to that point you are on the skinny side of the safety margin. Variations in components or loading procedures, even deep seating a bullet by .050 could make pressures take a turn for the ugly side in a hurry resulting in an unpleasant end.
Hope this helps too.
Todd
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Post by sixshot on Jan 18, 2015 21:11:48 GMT -5
A long time ago I decided it was easier to just move up to a bigger gun/caliber than to stress a smaller one. Red lining any gun is hard on both the shooter & the gun, going to something bigger & stronger just makes it so much more pleasant & we all shoot better when the front sight isn't buried in our forehead, even Texans!
Dick
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Paden
.375 Atomic
Lower Goldstream Creek
Posts: 1,132
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Post by Paden on Jan 18, 2015 21:56:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the information. I do have an old style or pre 2000 vaquero. Y'all have helped a lot. So, generally speaking, a 300 grain bullet at about 1200 fps will be in the neighborhood of max pressure for that gun. |
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Post by fortyshooter1 on Jan 18, 2015 22:16:35 GMT -5
Mule wants a "safe" 300 gr.@ 1500 FPS .45... Step up to the BFR .45-70 and lot's of safe shooting fun and be easy on the hand too!
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Post by Markbo on Jan 18, 2015 22:25:08 GMT -5
A long time ago I decided it was easier to just move up to a bigger gun/caliber than to stress a smaller one. Red lining any gun is hard on both the shooter & the gun, going to something bigger & stronger just makes it so much more pleasant & we all shoot better when the front sight isn't buried in our forehead, even Texans! Dick Even Texans? We all supposedly dim witted or something? |
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Post by sixshot on Jan 18, 2015 23:59:14 GMT -5
Markbo, no but some of your "neighbors" can be hard headed!! And I didn't even include Utah fishermen!
Dick
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mule
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 13
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Post by mule on Jan 22, 2015 19:27:54 GMT -5
The reasons I thought it might work are:
1. Doubletap sold 45s in 300gr.@ 1500fps
2. The old style vaquero is built on the .44 mag vaquero
Thank you for helping me.
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 23, 2015 4:21:17 GMT -5
mule.... main instigator for velocity from revolvers was Dick Casull. Didn't take Casull long to make five shot cylinders to contain the pressures required to achieve his goal. Either a 5-shot cylinder or build an outlandish revolver. Casull wanted it all holstered in a three pound revolver. No doubt, Sam Colt scaled his revolutionary 1836 Patterson for carry. It was a 5-shooter. Colt ventured into the payload game with his six shot 1847 Walker, a beast and a percussion magnum. While metallurgy has advanced mightily from Colt's iron pistols, a bit of history should help to keep things in perspective. For loading ammunition perspective is a good thing.
David Bradshaw
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Post by zac0419 on Jan 23, 2015 5:01:39 GMT -5
The reasons I thought it might work are: 1. Doubletap sold 45s in 300gr.@ 1500fps 2. The old style vaquero is built on the .44 mag vaquero Thank you for helping me. Ive owned most of the DT loads at one time or another and I've never came across a 300 at 1500fps. 1200 and 1325, but not 1500. |
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COR
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,522
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Post by COR on Jan 26, 2015 12:53:59 GMT -5
The extra 200fps (1300 is attainable, just not fun for me)is just needed when online or sitting at a stool. At 1100fps it's gonna go through most things you'll encounter that walk with 4 legs, or 2 for that matter.
Not that everyone is a hunter, some just like Carpal Tunnel...
And I'd be using a gas check under your scenario but I NEVER use a "velocity" as a target for my loads...I use accuracy to dictate the load I choose
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