DA Notes from the Range.

[2 Dogs]

This week I got in a Smith 625 post lock Mtn Gun in 45 Colt as well as a 325PD in 45 acp. I bought these guns from Mellonhead over on the Castboolits forum who assured me they were both good shooters and that he hadnt had any leading issues with them. As we will see, he was as good as his word. But first, a good cleanup and some measuring was in order. I started with the 325 and found the throats were all between .452" and .4525" which I was very happy with. Incidentally, this gun also has chamber with shoulders cut in them so if one needs to shoot the ACP stuff with no moon clips it can be done. A .443" pin gauge fit snugly in the barrel and slipped all the way thru. Now I was grinning.

The 625 was a bit different. It displayed even tighter cylinders, a .452" pin would only go all the way thru one throat but started in all the others.

The barrel on the Mtn Gun however took a .443" dia pin gauge all the way thru indicating no thread restriction BUT slightly more shallow rifling. Fortunately I had water dropped a bunch of those 45 SWC big maw hollowpoint bullets. I suspected this gun would want a bit harder bullet than an air cooled WW one.

I left to the range at about 1030 and might as well have stayed at home as I had a horrible range day. Im not going to make a bunch of excuses but just say I wasnt able to shoot a good clean 5 shot group all day. Its clear to me I will need to change the sights on the 325. I had all sorts of vertical issues with that one and only when I walked out into the sunlight and shot 3 cylinders at a 2" bull at 15 yards did I have any success with the thing. I fired some new American Eagle ball in moon clips thru it and my gut tells me its going to be a good shooter. I didnt bother to snap any pics of my Lee Martins BUT I will say I LIKED the 325 alot. I usually only have that much fun shooting my 32s but that 325 is FUN to shoot!! What a treat to own it is and Im sure I am going to enjoy it a great deal. Here it is with my 625 Mtn Gun.

Now on to the disgusting part. The load I selected for the Mountain Gun was 24.0 H4227 on the Miha 218 grain SWC cast from wheel weights and water dropped on a CCI 300 primer. All cautions apply here. Despite not getting a good clean group with the Mtn Gun I was pleased with its behavior. The rifling remained sharp and clean throughout the session. I like it! Now to do something about these locks....

On a whim, I tried some of the softer WW air cooled HPs in the Mtn Gun. I still didnt get a really nice group but the barrel remained nice a clean. This load had a slightly lighter 23.0 grain of H4227 powder charge.

These will be excellentsixguns for the field! My Barranti Hank Sloan holster awaits!!! You guys have a good day. Thanks for looking and do some shooting!!!!

[Fowler]

Yes sir I want one of those 325s seems just right to me...

[toroflow]

I noticed your use of CCI300 (std) primers with 4227. Obviously they work for you, but I was always of the opinion that 4227 needed mag primers? I know 2400 doesn't, but 296, h-110 do...not 4227? Thanks.

[boxhead]

So, unless I am missing something, you are pleased with the leading or lack there of but not with the accuracy of the loads? Also, are your air cooled bulllets running 12 BNH or there abouts?

[2 Dogs]

I try to use a standard primer wherever I can. That said, I dont disagree with you. In this case, it wasnt a problem with the Smith or the Ruger but the FA didnt like it.

[2 Dogs]

Box, I am pleased with these guns and am sure they are shooting better than I was today. Several times when I got a good visual front sight "lift" the shot was right on. Some I pulled a bit right and they landed right. Some I just lost in the blur.

I didnt measure the air cooled WW bullets. The HPs are a bit harder to measure with my tool. I believe they are 10-12 or so.

[toroflow]

Jul 27, 2012 14:26:20 GMT -5 2 Dogs said:

I try to use a standard primer wherever I can. That said, I dont disagree with you. In this case, it wasnt a problem with the Smith or the Ruger but the FA didnt like it.

That's interesting...

[warhawk]

Very nice, I picked up a 625 Mountain Gun about 20 years ago and just could not get it to shoot. I didn't know then about throat dimensions or any of that, I just knew that it didn't like my loads. Kind of soured my on the 45 Colt for a while as I already had a 629 Mountain Revolver that shot lights out, and still does.

There is a Milt Sparks pancake holster for these over on AR15.com, if you're interested.

[2 Dogs]

Warhawk, 20 years ago I really didnt know beans about revolvers either. Its been a long road but here we are. I too have a Smith 625PC that is on its second trip to Smith for help!

Milt Sparks makes top drawer stuff. My leather these days is created by out own LeatherMaker to the Gods, Mike Barranti at barrantileather.com sodo yourself a favor and take a look if you have a minute.

[2 Dogs]

Toroflow, to answer my own nagging questions in my mind about the magnum pistol primer vs standard in 45 colt with 4227 I pulled down the primer assembly today on my Dillon 550 and after cleaning it changed out the primers to CCI 350.

Were they cleaner? In a word yes. BUT, I didnt find them that much cleaner. I also found the loads were sharper to shoot. Accuracy did not seem improved either. So, keeping in mind each sixgun is a law unto itself they didnt work better for me.

I also called Taffin and discussed the issue with him some. We ended up agreeing that one could use magnum pistol primers with 4227 but depending on the load density and the particular sixgun a standard might do. I did point out to John that down here in S. Texas its pretty hot and I dont usually have any issues with my ammo being cold like someone farther north might. So, there ya go!

[2 Dogs]

I also shot some 45 acp 200 grain SWCs sized .452" in moon clips out of my 325 Smith and Wesson 45acp. Standard 45 auto load of 5.7 grains of 231 on a 200 H&G SWC. I happened to notice the taper crimp used will not be adequate since I was having some serious bullet pull issues. I shot 5 out of several moon clips and pulled it only to note the 6th round had pulled considerably out past the taper crimp. One bullet pulled out past the grease groove! Hows that for a surprise???

Im going to need a die that roll crimps for this sixgun. Apparently while it does not to seem to transfer much recoil to the hand, it transfers enough pull to the bullet to make it want to leave the case.....

[agrizz]

I have found in the past that 4227 worked best in the 41 mag with heavy bullets and pistol cartridges for rifles. No redeeming factor in any other caliber for a handgun. This just goes bang and pushes a bullet out the barrel in most calibers.

[subsonic]

Jul 28, 2012 15:57:31 GMT -5 2 Dogs said:

I also shot some 45 acp 200 grain SWCs sized .452" in moon clips out of my 325 Smith and Wesson 45acp. Standard 45 auto load of 5.7 grains of 231 on a 200 H&G SWC. I happened to notice the taper crimp used will not be adequate since I was having some serious bullet pull issues. I shot 5 out of several moon clips and pulled it only to note the 6th round had pulled considerably out past the taper crimp. One bullet pulled out past the grease groove! Hows that for a surprise???

Im going to need a die that roll crimps for this sixgun. Apparently while it does not to seem to transfer much recoil to the hand, it transfers enough pull to the bullet to make it want to leave the case.....

Sounds like your dies for your .45ACP need looked at. If you are sizing boolits to .451", the expander might be too big and not making enough neck tension. You can try .452" boolits if you're not already. Were these pretty easy to seat as far as pressure on the press handle? Try a smaller expander or turn yours down (sand it while chucked in a drill in a pinch). My .45 colt expander has been turned down to .448" and it works great.... ;D

[2 Dogs]

Noted. I addressed the issue, but in a bit of a different way. More to follow .

[robl]

Couple different ways I have dealt with bullet puill on my 45 sixguns first I used to run the loaded seated rounds about 1/4 of the way into my sizing die with the depriming assembly out. this created a super taper crimp..,. Then I traded into some Dillon 45 ACP dies and never had the problem again.