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Post by sixshooter on Oct 19, 2010 10:25:13 GMT -5
How hard is it to convert a 30-30 Marlin to 307 Winchester? I know the head is the same diameter but does anything else have to happen to get them to feed?
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Post by Lee Martin on Oct 20, 2010 8:27:54 GMT -5
Should work fine. At most, you may have to take a little off the feed rails. Other than that, it's a rechamber job. And unlike a 30-30 Winchester 1894 (non-XTR), the 336 can take the pressure. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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Post by sixshooter on Oct 21, 2010 10:37:43 GMT -5
Cool. Can a basic 308 Winchester reamer work?
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Post by Lee Martin on Oct 22, 2010 7:57:37 GMT -5
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Post by sixshooter on Oct 22, 2010 12:15:32 GMT -5
Thanks Lee. That's what I thought.
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cdcash
.30 Stingray
Posts: 169
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Post by cdcash on Nov 18, 2010 23:14:34 GMT -5
I'm no ballistics expert, but personally I would urge caution and much thought if going down this path. Maybe the 30-30AI is a better alternative and will get you just about where you'd be with the 307(in either the unmodified 336 or 94 Win. action). The 307 Win. is known to be more finicky pressure wise than it's cousin the 356 Win. I would email Slim Iorg who has shot the 307 Win. a great deal, as well the 356 Win. and 30/30AI. He could give you real world info and if you search his posts on Beartooth and Leverguns they are very informative. He could give you a better direction on this than I can.
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Post by nonpcnrarn on Nov 18, 2010 23:22:21 GMT -5
I'm no ballistics expert, but personally I would urge caution and much thought if going down this path. Maybe the 30-30AI is a better alternative and will get you just about where you'd be with the 307(in either the unmodified 336 or 94 Win. action). The 307 Win. is known to be more finicky pressure wise than it's cousin the 356 Win. I would email Slim Iorg who has shot the 307 Win. a great deal, as well the 356 Win. and 30/30AI. He could give you real world info and if you search his posts on Beartooth and Leverguns they are very informative. He could give you a better direction on this than I can. IIRC Mr. Iorg has some info on which powders to avoid as some raised pressures rather high when exposed to summer heat. I have a Big Bore 307 and would personally prefer the slender lines and lighter weight of a regular 94 in 30-30AI. A 336 in 307 may be ok. Isn't the 45-70 and 450 Marlin in the same size 336 action? I would like a 336 Cowboy in 307. |
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cdcash
.30 Stingray
Posts: 169
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Post by cdcash on Nov 18, 2010 23:40:58 GMT -5
The 444 Mar., 45/70 and 450 Marlin are thumpers but their high end is a much lower pressure than what the 307 and 356 can be loaded for. Not as much pressure is raised in those straight/slightly tapered cartridges with the big bullet diameters. I think the 450 Marlin is 44K Cup max and the 307 Win. is a 52K CUP cartridge. Many loads for the 307 won't be near that but some can get you up there based on reloading data. Slim Iorg ran into pressure signs at 50K Cup with the 30/30 AI in both the 336 action and 94 Win, so it makes me shiver to think of shooting top end 307 Win. loads in the 336 action.
Yeah, the 307 Win. in that thicker diameter barrel of the Big Bore 94 is a bit heavy. The 356 Win. with the same diameter takes away some more metal in the bore and is not so bad. Feels not much different from the standard 94.
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Post by Lee Martin on Nov 19, 2010 9:13:43 GMT -5
I agree on the high pressure, but the 336 can handle it. Remember, Marlin did a small run of 307s back in the 80s and the guns were thoroughly proofed. They also built a few thousand 356s and I've never heard of one coming unglued. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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cdcash
.30 Stingray
Posts: 169
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Post by cdcash on Nov 19, 2010 11:03:44 GMT -5
Hey Lee! Did Marlin actually release the 307 Win. to the public? Slim has commented on the barrel steel issue as the possible killing factor....more of a cost issue of creating a stronger, beefier barrel than a streghth of action issue The Win. proof chrome moly is super tough, and again they increased the safety margin by increasing the diameter in the big bore barrel, especially at the threads where diameter and strength of steel is important. The 356 Win. is not noted for being as finicky as the 307 because it has the larger bore size.
Regarding strength of actions. It is interesting to read of Buck Elliots destructive tests using 94 Win. and Marlin 336 actions. Folks were considering putting 454 Casul barrels on them and he wanted to show how dangerous it would be. At 60K Cup+, the first actions to bit the dust were the 336's(don't think any made it past 10 rounds), followed by the AE Mod. 94's. The 94 Win's lasted longer, but I don't think most made it past 20 rounds. The one Big Bore Win. reciever did not last long at all and bit the dust right after the Marlins. The longest lasting action firing that 454 Casul was a 1920's Mod. 94 Win. which lasted close to 50 shots from what I remember. Again, not enough guns to be scientific but the trend seems to be born out by other tests I've seen. Nothing failed or barrels burst, but the actions were battered to the point that they could not be fired anymore. Buck used a barrel that was suitably strong and placed on each successive rifle. I think you can find some of this info on the Leverguns board.
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cdcash
.30 Stingray
Posts: 169
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Post by cdcash on Nov 19, 2010 11:24:32 GMT -5
Also, the new 308 Marlin in the 336 seems to get one to about the same place as the 307? I've not studied the ballistics but I guess with new powders they made it happen. Not sure what they did to the Marlin barrel or action, if anything.
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Post by Lee Martin on Nov 19, 2010 11:42:15 GMT -5
A few 307 Marlins made it out of the factory. Cdcash makes a good point too.....the 308 Marlin is the near ballistic equivalent of the 307. As far as I know, Marlin made no changes to the action or barrel. Another thing to note is Winchester produced Big Bore 94s in 307 from the early 80s to around 1997. I own two and have shot top-end 307. There's nothing maginal when it comes to that pressure and receiver strength. I think most would agree when comparing the 336 to an XTR we're splitting hairs on strength. Consider the 450 Marlin. Yes, it operates around 43,000 PSI, but the hull is larger (ie, more case thrust). I've yet to hear of a 336 450 coming apart. Same can be said for Wild West Guns and their 457 WW Magnum. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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Hobie
.30 Stingray
Posts: 206
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Post by Hobie on Nov 19, 2010 11:53:04 GMT -5
Please ensure it is marked as a .307 not as the .308...
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Post by Lee Martin on Nov 19, 2010 12:24:00 GMT -5
Please ensure it is marked as a .307 not as the .308... Hobie....not sure what you're referring to. I was talking about 307 chambered and marked Marlins from the 1980s. The 308 was in reference to the new "308 Marlin" 336. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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cdcash
.30 Stingray
Posts: 169
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Post by cdcash on Nov 19, 2010 12:45:18 GMT -5
Thanks Lee. Yeah, love the Big Bore Win.....bought one new in 1992 in 356 Win. and is hands down my favorite lever to this day. If Marlin put out any 307's to the public, it must have been a very small number. I would lean toward a new 308 Marlin for this application, myself, and have zero worries. That or buy an older Big Bore Win. in 307 Win. Sill some NIB out there.
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