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Post by Frank V on May 27, 2009 16:43:21 GMT -5
A different twist: Are there any lawsuits on record from removing the lock? Frank
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
Posts: 911
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Post by shorty500 on May 27, 2009 18:44:39 GMT -5
I have never had a problem with mine. I have four with the locks and I shoot them more than most. S&W is building some fine revolvers these days. I think a person would miss out on a good gun if the lock were the only reason not to buy one. Then there is always this www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVPYgohVCNMit's just one theory that i cooked up. what i can't figuire out about the lock issues is- that as plentiful as they are online i don't personnally know of a failure that i could see 1st hand either my own gun or a buddy. am not saying that any reports are false but if it's happening so often i don't see why it hasn't bitten me yet knock on wood. i counted heads last nite and there are currently 26 different S&W's in the vault or scattered around the house in handy locations. none of them have failed! not even the earliest .500mag and guys, trust me, it has had the hell pounded out of it!! the only one that hasn't been shot hard & put up wet so to say is last years Christmas present, a M396NG .44Special that just haven't had time to shoot. plus the various models that my buddies own. have we found issues with various QC problems that need to be fixed-YES! but absolute zero lock issues!
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Post by paul105 on May 27, 2009 22:20:19 GMT -5
Shorty500 wrote:
[/quote]plus the various models that my buddies own. have we found issues with various QC problems that need to be fixed-YES! but absolute zero lock issues! [/quote]
So, various QC problems with other mechanical aspects of a 100+ year old design, but none with a relative recent engineered lock mechanism.
Twenty six revolvers with the lock with no problems -- How many hundred thousand S&Ws mfg with lock -- Statistacaly not significant. Like the bear attack victum -- it never happened to me, therefore it can't/didn't happen.
It's a mechanical device -- it is subject to failure!
I've had three 329 PDs -- Two spontaneously locked up. The lock mechanism has been removed -- no further problems.
If you use these guns for protection, you have a decision to make -- trust the lock --- or not. Looks like you trust the lock. Hope Murphy isn't your constant companion -- he seems to visit me regularly.
Your choice.
Frank -- In Montana with the new legislation (probably before), unless it was accidental, by an unauthorized user, it wouldn't be an issue. What if the lock was fuctional but not engaged? Who knows.
God Speed.
Paul
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Post by peacemaker on May 27, 2009 23:42:19 GMT -5
Here we go again. It's time to set definitions These seem like good ones: "LOCK FAILURE": A failure of the lock to function as designed. Q. What was the lock designed to do? A. The lock was designed so that the owner could disable the gun to prevent unauthorized persons from firing it. So, "lock failure" means that the gun cannot be fired while the lock is purposely engaged as designed. "LOCK MALFUNCTION": An unintentional and undesirable occurance which the lock causes due to a weakness in it's design. Q. Is the lock intended to lock the gun up when the owner wants the gun to remain unlocked. A. No. This is a "lock malfunction", NOT A "LOCK FAILURE". I know this may sound nit-picky, but for some reason the neverending use of the term "lock failure" in these discussions bugs me since I've never heard of any instances of one of them actually failing, i.e. where the lock has failed to prevent an unauthorized person from firing the gun when intentionally engaged as designed.
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hoss
.327 Meteor
Posts: 716
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Post by hoss on May 28, 2009 3:22:44 GMT -5
Naw Rigby, I didn't get it. Been kinda bummed about it, but, thems the breaks.
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
Posts: 911
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Post by shorty500 on May 28, 2009 4:47:41 GMT -5
i am definitely not a COLLECTOR! Just fortunate enough to have a good trade, a good job and a large WORKING assortment of revolvers and my own little range in the backyard. dependant on work/weather conditions i normally average about 2000 rounds a week. how do i know that? primer expenditures are easy to keep up with.
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jared
.30 Stingray
Posts: 102
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Post by jared on May 28, 2009 7:25:56 GMT -5
Here is a picture of the 329 after it locked up. One poster said he "cuts up the key and throws it away". I wouldn't do that, what if the gun locks it's self and the only way to disable the lock is with the key. Then you have a really poor club until you can call S&W and buy another.
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Post by paul105 on May 28, 2009 9:02:24 GMT -5
I had the same malfuction Jared's pictures show above. Also had a lock parts failure -- see the bottom lock part in the following picture. Never found the piece that sheared off. Lock parts in place for comparison. FWIW, Paul
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Post by nobearsyet on May 28, 2009 11:39:26 GMT -5
Sounds like maybe a local gunsmith somewhere could make a d@#n good living taking locks out and fitting a little piece of drill rod to the hole in the frame
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Post by Frank V on May 28, 2009 12:09:10 GMT -5
Sounds like maybe a local gunsmith somewhere could make a d@#n good living taking locks out and fitting a little piece of drill rod to the hole in the frame Except probably no gunsmith will put his fanny on the line for disabling a factory safety devise. Frank
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Post by nobearsyet on May 28, 2009 12:15:06 GMT -5
Why not? Look at all the 1911 grip safeties that have been disable dover the years.
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Post by inFALable on May 28, 2009 16:13:51 GMT -5
I don't have any "lock" Smiths and never will. Its really a shame that the release of all these new renditions of classic models coincided with the stupid key lock.
I had Robar pin down the grip safety on my 1911. I unpinned it back when it was part of my concealed carry battery for fear of how it would look in court. Now that its just a fun gun I repinned it.
If I was a gunsmith I wouldn't de-activate any safety in todays age.
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
Posts: 911
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Post by shorty500 on May 28, 2009 18:21:53 GMT -5
one point i want to clarify--- i NEVER said that it couldn't happen, only that it has NEVER HAPPENED TO ME OR ANYONE IN MY AREA. yes i do have issues with the QC department @s&W, also with Ruger, Colt, Kimber, Remington and so on and so forth. honestly the only single company that i have never had an issue with was FreedomArms. Yes, 26 of my Smith's have the durned lock, and YES i shoot them regularly. iposted this looking for the onfo of other shooters who may have experienced trouble with the lock. and have gotten mixed answers. some have & some like me have not! as a gunsmith & machinist/toolmaker/cnc programmer-setup, etc Hell yes anything mechanical will break or malfunction at the worst possible time! do i personnally trust the lock? NO! my car gun, my house gun and my hip gun that tote daily are all PRE-LOCK or NOT S&W.
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TXTad
.240 Incinerator
All into my .36" revolvers lately...
Posts: 13
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Post by TXTad on May 29, 2009 0:17:37 GMT -5
I just hate that all of the gun rags are a bunch of apologists when it comes to this stuff. I understand they don't want to irritate their advertisers, but geez, these locks make these guns dangerous products and nobody calls them on it. I believe moving the firing pin to the frame made these guns more dangerous too. Consider a small piece of debris, like a pebble, getting into the hammer slot. In the old guns, this would render the gun unable to fire until the debris was removed. With the new guns, if a small pebble were to get between the hammer and the firing pin, a blow to the hammer would fire the gun despite the fact that the trigger was not pulled. I realize that's a contrived situation, but the fact of the matter is that the new design is less safe, not more safe. I've never heard of an old S&W revolver firing unintentionally because of the hammer mounted firing pin. As far as I'm concerned, S&W is out of business. Their prices are beyond stupid anyway.
Tad
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kooz
.327 Meteor
Posts: 618
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Post by kooz on May 29, 2009 0:36:23 GMT -5
I had a newer Mountain gun in .45 do the same thing as jared's malfunction pictured above, happened a couple times, got rid of the gun. I also have a 442 that I bought for my wife, but had the lock deactivated by my local smith.
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