CURSED LOCKS IN S&W

[shorty500]

OK, this can be a NASTY subject. but i am tired of all the popeycock, heresay and UNPROVEN comments i keep seeing on other various forums so i wanted to post the question here!
Who has actually had a lock malfunction? what happened and what was the CURE?
Please be as detailed as possible. AND A WARNING TO ALL TROLLS, I OWN & SHOOT MULTIPLE S&W's WITH THE LOCK, NO I DONT LIKE IT BEING THERE BUT TO DATE I HAVE NEVER HAD A MALFUNCTION! I WORK ON S&W's, FIRE THEM EXTENSIVELY WITH HEAVY LOADS IN THE VARIOUS SCANDIUM MODELS ALL THE WAY UP TO THE 500MAGNUM. SO IF YOU TELL ME RECOIL MADE THE LOCK JUMP ON THEN YOU BETTER BE ABLE TO IMPRESS ME BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT RECOIL REALLY IS AND MY LOCKS DONT JUMP ON!

now then i am not defending S&W. the cursed lock should not be there but everything i keep seeing posted says they malfuntion, yet out of 30plus guns, hardkickers at that, where are my breakdowns?

[erich]

Mine self-activated when I oafishly knocked the unloaded 60-15 off a counter onto a hardwood floor. Since this is precisely the kind of impact a gun might have to take during a struggle (I've done enough force-on-force training to be aware of that), I considered it unacceptable and sold the gun at a loss.

So, it wasn't recoil that was the problem in my steel-framed self-defense gun. I understand that recoil has activated some, from the stories of folks I trust. I'll let them speak up if they're here and if they care to take the time - yet again.

[Len]

About a year ago I bought a 442 with a lock to replace an old body guard for concealed carry. I started reading about all of the failures on two of the Smith forums. I decided to open up the gun and look at the mechanism it is very flimsy and there is a small spring if not ( I do not know if this is the proper term ) retained correctly causes the hang up. From what I have read the spring causes the problem and from the number of reports there is something to the problem.

My solution I took a loss got rid of the gun and bought another old body guard.

Disabling the lock could cause a problem if you ever had to use the gun as its something the experts in this field say could be used against you in court.

I own one other new Smith a 325 TR all of my other Smiths are guns from the 1980's or older. I have no intentions of buying another Smith with a lock.

Len

[jared]

I had one fail on an S&W 329 twice out of 3 shots. It was a friend’s gun and he had never had any trouble with it.

I shot it with some midrange magnum loads with no problems. Then I went to loads using 24.0-gr H110 and a 240gr JHP, at the second and third shot the lock flag popped up disabling the trigger. The hammer also rebounded back to a "half cock" position. If you pulled the hammer back and wiggled it a little the flag would drop and the gun functioned normally.

My friend tried it with the same loads with no problem. I think part of the problem was I am a fairly large guy and don't give as much as normal when shooting a handgun. The hammer definitely bounced back to the "half cock" position the trigger wasn't reset and pulled a second time like S&W claimed was happening with the unlocking cylinders on the .500 S&W.

I was very leery of the locks before and do not trust them now. I know it is common theme on the internet to bash anyone who says something less than complimentary of new S&W's. That incident and a couple of other experiences with new S&W have turned me off of them. I still have a safe full of older S&W revolvers and enjoy them immensely.

[AxeHandle]

Never had a lock problem here.... Don't own that many S&W revolvers with locks. There are a pair PC 8 shot N frames, a PC 500, a PC 460, and a 642. Just bought a model 22 with a lock. It is the ugly hole that I don't like.. I may look for some sort of aftermarket plug for the 22..

Oh yeah... It may be of value to note that I have never attempted to lock any of mine...

[nobearsyet]

As Axe said, never had a problem with a lock, but then again none of mine have ever been locked either, to be honest the first thing I do when I buy a gun that has any of the new fangled locks is cut the key in half and throw the key in the scrap pile.

[shorty500]

May 26, 2009 10:20:34 GMT -5 nobearsyet said:

As Axe said, never had a problem with a lock, but then again none of mine have ever been locked either, to be honest the first thing I do when I buy a gun that has any of the new fangled locks is cut the key in half and throw the key in the scrap pile.

none of mine have been locked and they never will unless they decide to malfunction of their own free will! do agree with the flimsy opinion stated by another poster also.
now to throw yet another monkey in the trouble barrel we step back in time to immediately after the big .500 came out, i set out to prune back the 8-3/8" barrel to a more compact length months before they announced the 4" gun. during the course of this i dismantelled the complete gun to beadblast for a matte finish. guys i dont yet know how something so durned flimsy looking can be so danged hard to remove! but i knew if left it in that it would just accumulate the blasting media that i didnt want left in gun after reassembly. so i own a 5" custom with no lock. drilled & tapped the hole, screwed in a stainless pleg screw from the inside and secured it with GREEN loctite before blasting. looks better than the lock.

[shorty500]

and in regards to what JARED said re: the unlocking cylinders--- S&W did have to go to a heavier spring on the cylinder bolt, that is a fact. some of the early .500's would rotate backwards because of that. but the second pull on the trigger stories are true also. i had that happen with my 1st gun even after i installed a heavier spring. was burning lots of extremely heavy rounds doing load development. kept pushing my endurance limits until after very long afternoons of chrono & group testing that i got tired and on two different days had it happen and this was with a gun that i had installed an even heavier spring than the factory does now.

[shorty500]

and also in regards to something that JARED said. he may have an interesting point that deserves some extensive research. because he refered to hisself as a big guy, but now me the guy that has never had a problem well, LOL i might weight in @ 160lbs if i had two of my Xframes on my hips! that theory interests me. wonder how many of the lock issues belong to guys that are able4 to kind of let the guns slam into a anvil so to speak? all a guy my size can do with the BIG GUNS(long guns too!) is hold on tight and ride the recoil,but a big man that maybe even locks his elbows(i dont cuz it hurts me) might hold the guns, especially the airweights to the point that maybe those small parts are bouncing around??!!??
any opinions???

[Cucuy]

Shorty,

Never had a lock problem, but I had a problem because I wouldn't go for the ride on my 500. Every cylinder I would experience a "click" around shot 3 or 4. It was a bit unnerving to stand around and await the outcome of a potential misfire from that beast. Turns out that there was no misfire at all, just a cylinder that was rotating when you didn't want it to. Apparently, I was man-handling it to prevent muzzle rise. Don't know why, but it makes sense. Look at the human body holding a revolver. When everything is locked up, where is the weak point? Think cylinder. Once I relaxed and let the recoil happen, I never had that problem again with everything including some fairly sever reloads.

Oh yeah, I'm a full figured gal in the two fitty + range...

[shorty500]

I firmly believe that recoil vs. the "DEATH GRIP" that some people try on the big guns and on the airweights could contribute to alot of problems. one experienced shooter in my area tried the 4" .500 with a very mild load of TrailBoss. he is a big healthy boy and locks both elbows when shooting. results: he lost! the 335g slug @850fps won! hurt both elbows! just enough for him to hate the the big gun.
dont believe that anyone should try to overpower any gun, wood/steel have got the human body beat for tensile strength. think about the Ransom rest that tries to mimic a human hand under recoil vs. the lead sled that when "OVERLOADED" with shot bags has caused stock damage in rifles.
if we were to fix a revolver(don't care who the maker is) in a vise so that it couldn't shift in recoil and mounted the vise to say a concrete bench what would happen? Most likely in my opinion it would begin to self destruct.

[erich]

So . . . are you suggesting that there must be a mystical technique ("Hold it tight, but not too tight . . .") that one must use to secure proper function from the S&Ws with onboard locks?



Because that would be really bad engineering. ;D

I think it's simpler than that - sometimes human-designed and -built things fail. If you engineer in a part whose purpose it to stop the action, sometimes it'll do that when not intended . . . for a plethora of reasons, depending on that gun's circumstances at that time. What is also true is that if the part isn't there (due to removal or the fact that the company never engineered it into the product in the first place), that part can't fail and lock up the gun at an uncomfortable moment.

Doesn't really matter to you guys with your sporting toys, but it could well matter to someone using the weapon for defensive purposes. Me, I don't care - I won't own one after mine failed.

[chutch]

I have never had a problem with mine. I have four with the locks and I shoot them more than most. S&W is building some fine revolvers these days. I think a person would miss out on a good gun if the lock were the only reason not to buy one. Then there is always this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVPYgohVCNM

[hoss]

My model 21 has never posed a problem. My 4" 500 had to be returned to S&W to address the safety self engaging. My Model 22 would self engage after about 40 rounds of 45 ACP: I removed the lock, and no more troubles.

[rigby]

2 out of three aint bad but in this case . Will never own one with a lock for a bunch of reasons. Darn shame too there are some nice models.
BTW Hoss, saw an advert for the ATHF live action show, guess you didnt get it