Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,565
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Post by Fowler on Sept 11, 2022 14:27:48 GMT -5
The finest elk hunter I ever met was an old rancher in Gunnison. Years ago he told me "the first 8 elk I ever killed were with a 243 before someone told me it wasn't an elk rifle!". He now hunts with a long bow for all his big game and has a collection of trophies that will drop your jaw, the last time I spoke with him he said the elk hunting was slow that year, it took him 3 days to get his bull down with his bow.
Like anything it is certainly where you shoot your animal way more than with what. That said if the 100gr Nosler Partition wont do the job then Id get a bigger gun. Its put that rifles best foot forwards for 50 years and hasn't gotten any less effective over time.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Sept 11, 2022 14:53:17 GMT -5
When younger I made the switch from 243, to 45-70… biggest difference that I actually consistently saw, was less “blood shot” hydraulic bruising from the 45-70… yep the 45-70 seems to plant deer with authority, but the 243 still killed well, just more wasted meat do the the bruising… I guess I expected that to translate into more potential effective range with the 243
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Post by bula on Sept 11, 2022 16:59:41 GMT -5
In far N.E. Ohio , decent river bottom whitetail bucks commonly weigh @ 200 lbs. This with their insides , outside, back in the woods. So for comparison, who has after field dress weights for happy to shoot size mtn sheep and goat ? I'll add, I kinda think, goats being well, goats, are gonna be tougher than just the pound comparison might show. What say you folks.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Sept 11, 2022 17:18:55 GMT -5
The stories of guides and other old timers using 243 or 250Sav for Western big game are many and while I enjoy listening to them, I also try and listen to the details. Elk, black bear, big muleys etc. fall to well placed bullets even non premium bullets. Using a partition or mono to my mind does not increase the effective distance, only better ensure penetration. Many of the stories I’ve heard are with animals taken at less than 200 yards, at those distances a well placed bullet kills pretty much everything. While I much prefer more gun and bullet than needed, I think if I needed to I could hunt and take everything I needed or wanted with a 243 or 250sav. and a 100gr. bullet. In fact I’ve picked up a new to me Savage 99 in 250 Sav. and plan on loading up Hornady 90gr. GMX/CX once all the factory ammo is gone, it will be my general purpose load.
Trapr
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Post by starmetal47 on Sept 12, 2022 10:37:16 GMT -5
In far N.E. Ohio , decent river bottom whitetail bucks commonly weigh @ 200 lbs. This with their insides , outside, back in the woods. So for comparison, who has after field dress weights for happy to shoot size mtn sheep and goat ? I'll add, I kinda think, goats being well, goats, are gonna be tougher than just the pound comparison might show. What say you folks. I use to live in the Chillicothe area of Ohio. My largest buck I shot on my land when 252 on the hoof and was an 11 point. They were plenty of big deer in that area.
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Post by starmetal47 on Sept 12, 2022 10:39:15 GMT -5
Just for information a lot of years ago the writer Rick Jamison said that the 260 Remington was the perfect caliber for whitetail deer as though it was invented specifically for that animal. What do y'all think about the 260?
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Post by bula on Sept 12, 2022 11:36:34 GMT -5
I'll see your .260 and raise you, a 7mm-08.. Just saying, and no experience , hands on with either. Will say most are packing more punch that needed for deer. My uncles on both sides came of age during the Depression and went right to War, WW2. They remained frugal all their days. My Uncle George that spent his life in Bradford Penn., and worked at the CASE knife factory owned 3 guns. An Ithaca M37 16ga, a Enfield by Winchester 30-06, and a 4" Colt P.P.. This covered EVERYTHING for him quite nicely. The last few decades we've mostly had the luxury of, well you know. I am thankful.
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Post by parallaxbill on Sept 12, 2022 12:27:52 GMT -5
Just for information a lot of years ago the writer Rick Jamison said that the 260 Remington was the perfect caliber for whitetail deer as though it was invented specifically for that animal. What do y'all think about the 260? While I have no experience with the 260 Remington, I have killed a fair share of whitetails with the 6.5x55 Swedish mauser through my 24" T/C Encore. A ballistic match for the 260 when hand loaded.
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Post by potatojudge on Sept 12, 2022 13:05:29 GMT -5
Just for information a lot of years ago the writer Rick Jamison said that the 260 Remington was the perfect caliber for whitetail deer as though it was invented specifically for that animal. What do y'all think about the 260? As good as any for whitetail. Many of them will be limited to 120-130 grain bullets rather than the heavier 140-150 class, but that's fine for deer. It's really hard to compare cartridges without knowing the details of the rifle they're chambered for. Twist, throating, and magazine length determine what a round is capable of. This is especially true of the 6mm rounds. Are 6x47 Lapua and 6mm Creedmoor better rounds than a 243? Well, they're usually built with a faster twist and longer throat, so yeah in that setting they are. A fast twist long throat 243 in a single shot will outperform either though, just due to larger case capacity with all else equalized. 100 grain 6mm bullets aren't the heavies now- 115 are. Growing up 180 grains in a 30-06 were the heavies, now they're 230+ grain. Bullets have changed rifles, rifles have changed requirements for brass dimensions leading to the new rounds everyone likes to complain about but for those that don't handload or build custom rifles (some of) these new rounds are advantageous. Sometimes all you need is one bullet that kills out of proportion to what you'd expect. The 7mm 120 ballistic tip has that reputation. The 25 cal 85 grain ballistic tip does as well. Bullet construction and performance at impact velocity can extend the useful range of a round and help bring down bigger game than a larger but less adequate bullet. The easy button is to buy older European rifles. Their 6.5x57 and 7 Mauser guns were built to handle heavy for caliber round nose bullets, so handle modern heavy VLD bullets seated out long nicely. You'll struggle to get a factory 260 to handle the range of bullets a 6.5x57 will.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Sept 12, 2022 13:10:29 GMT -5
talk about more gun than needed... when I 1st started going "up North" with my new FIL, as the "youngster" I got to do all the driving of deer, while everyone ( my age now ) sat in deer stands, also to make sure I knew what I was doing, I got to field dress all the deer, for about the 1st 3 years for the party...
back then I was using 100 grain .243... I think everyone else except the property owner was using 30-06... property owner was using a 300 Win Mag... no propblem for me cleaning them to tell whose deer was whose... that 300 Win Mag left about a 6" circle of bruised meat, at the distances we were hunting
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Post by bigbrowndog on Sept 12, 2022 14:27:13 GMT -5
So many things get lost through the years, much of it is lost because many feel it is trivial information. When in actuality it is important, some of the main reasons for using heavier bullets by those European hunters, is that the entire hunt was celebrated and appreciated. In the 60’s and 70’s you were required, not expected, to wear the proper attire. Only once in the years of hearing stories or seeing firsthand the hunters that had the privilege of taking game, did I ever hear of them being allowed to hunt without wearing proper attire. The heavier bullets allowed the search for game to be enjoyed after the hit, the eager excitement of blood trailing, training younger upcoming hunters as well as new dogs. In the end the respect for the animal is showed by giving the animal it’s last meal, the sprig of greenery placed carefully in the mouth as a sign of respect for the animals life. Finally culminating in a large celebration for all the successful hunters and animals with a formal ceremony, music, and possibly bonfire.
Also, back then heavier bullets were what was needed for penetration, and they were more predictable. As to the 260 or any of the new short action 6.5’s, none equal the old timer 6.5x55 when loaded to modern spec. Light bullets or heavy bullets, the Swede beats them all hands down, I have a Swede friend who right now is looking for a moose to run a 140gr. bullet into. and when he does it will simply do its job just like it has for over 100 years. A few of the rounds that seem to have disappeared, but still do their job quite well, some are better known than others, 6.5x55, 7x57, 45-70, 30-06, 9.3x62, 9.3x74r, 250Sav.,300Sav., 41mag, 357max, etc.
Trapr
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Post by starmetal47 on Sept 12, 2022 15:10:02 GMT -5
I'll see your .260 and raise you, a 7mm-08.. Just saying, and no experience , hands on with either. Will say most are packing more punch that needed for deer. My uncles on both sides came of age during the Depression and went right to War, WW2. They remained frugal all their days. My Uncle George that spent his life in Bradford Penn., and worked at the CASE knife factory owned 3 guns. An Ithaca M37 16ga, a Enfield by Winchester 30-06, and a 4" Colt P.P.. This covered EVERYTHING for him quite nicely. The last few decades we've mostly had the luxury of, well you know. I am thankful. MY DEER RIFLE is my 7mm-08 in a SAKO Mannlicher. Love it.
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Post by sixshot on Sept 12, 2022 17:56:14 GMT -5
Back in the 60's & 70's when I used rifles quite a bit the 243 was a real favorite using the 85 gr Sierra FB. I took quite a few deer with that bullet which seemed to hold up really well, even on big mule deer. If I was going to hunt Sheep & Goats, Sheep can get quite heavy & stocky, while Goats are deeper but more thin, I would use a good 6.5 caliber, something like the 6.5/284 or perhaps my old 257 Ackley. On the Sheep you would want a tougher bullet because they are thicker, on the Goats you want a more rapid expanding bullet because, as mentioned they are deep but thinner so they can navigate around those many cliffs they live in. On both you want to drop them with the first shot, if you don't they can fall a long, long ways. Pick your poison.
Dick
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lah
.30 Stingray
Posts: 421
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Post by lah on Sept 22, 2022 12:41:08 GMT -5
I would use a good 6.5 caliber, something like the 6.5/284 or perhaps my old 257 Ackley. Dick I love the 257 Ackley.
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Post by sixshot on Sept 23, 2022 1:06:01 GMT -5
I killed a pretty decent bull elk one year with a 257 Ackley, can't remember if I used 100 gr Nosler BT's or 100 gr Hornady's but it was a one shot kill at a steep uphill angle. Rifle was a Ruger #1, 26" barrel.
Dick
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